Adhortative, was: Conlang T-shirt
|From:||Irina Rempt-Drijfhout <ira@...>|
|Date:||Sunday, October 31, 1999, 19:10|
On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, Gerald Koenig wrote:
> <dis> seems to be the same concept as <_chaza_>. It means
> is_located at or is_DISplaced to. It is different from
> <di'el> which means dwell, ie stay a long time, and live in,
> a place.
There's no temporal aspect at all to _chaza_; it just means "to be
present, to be located". In the Four Invocations of the Gods, each
stanza ends in _aniez so chazay_ "be with us too" (as well as in all
the other places where a god is, apparently). This is clearly a call
for the god's presence during the time the invocation pertains to -
when it's used as a morning prayer, for the coming day; when it's
used to implore the gods to attend a ritual, for the duration of the
"To live in a place" is _astina_, that is, "to make one's home
(somewhere)" (from _astin_ "house, home, household"). Gods don't do
that: the only place they inhabit is their own home beyond the stars.
> VXT has only "shall/must" or "let". Maybe it needs
> a mixed term like Valdyan.
I didn't realize the adhortative use of the inceptive present was
mixed like this; Valdyan doesn't really have verbal mood except for
the irrealis (which is constructed like a tense), but I realized when
writing and translating things that the inceptive seemed to work that
In the translation of a text from Watakass=ED I used the inceptive
foryas yat narovina tysesaye
worship.place-acc-s this NEG-make.holy-inf cease-INC-IMP-p
Stop desecrating this holy place [right now]
_tysesaye_ "start ceasing" gives it great urgency.
> >Another example: _le denesan_ "we're about to go", but usually,
> >depending on context, "let's go!" (a nice reflexive, "put ourselves",
> >with the result of _chaza_ wherever you go and put yourself)
> Not sure I entirely understand, but "let's put ourselves there" would be:
Which part of it don't you understand?
> Xa ni sieh pas ini eco. OR
> Xan sieh pas ni eco.
> [Somebody] permit that we ourselves move here.
> I changed locate to move.
> <sieh> makes a reflexive.
The Valdyan doesn't mean "let us go" in the sense of "tell ole
Pharaoh, let my people go". There's no permission, just intention,
and someone taking the initiative and wanting to take the rest along.
Do you habitually express "to go somewhere" with "to put oneself
somewhere" (as it is in Valdyan) or did you make that up to find a
Varsinen an laynynay, saraz no arlet rastynay.