Christophe wrote:
> En réponse à John Cowan <jcowan@...>:
>
> >
> > What matters is that certain lexical items like "amor" /amur/ and
> > "trobador"
> > /trubadur/ are preserved so that they can spread to other langs. Not
> > necessarily the spellings, of course, which are *here's* Standard
> > Occitan.
> >
>
> For /amur/, as I said there is no problem. The spelling is <amour> and the
> pronunciation /a'mu/, but it was still /a'mur/ (flap r) until one century
ago,
Do you really pronounce that /amu/? I must be stuck to 100 yrs ago, because
I have always thought it was prononounced /amur/!
> so it shouldn't count. As for /trubadur/, if I knew the origin of the word
(from
> what does it derive?),
Provençal: trobar clus, trobar lieu... B. de Ventadorn, B. de Born (sp?),
Arnaut Daniel...
> I could say, but as I see it it is a little bit more
> problematic since in Narbonósc intervocalic voiced stops become
fricatives, thus
> the corresponding word would be spelled <trouvadour> and pronounced in
modern
> Narbonósc /truva'du/ (French has a cognate: trouvère /tru'vEr/). Still,
compared
> to French, Narbonósc fricativization of intervocalic voiced stops is
rather late
> (end of the XVIIth century approximately. It seems to have been
contemporaneous
> of the Revolution). So maybe other languages would have borrowed it before
the
> fricativization... Interesting word still. What's its origin?
>
> >
> > > Which ones are you talking about? Maybe we can keep the etymology, and
> > just
> > > replace the word "Occitan" with the word "Narbonósc" :) . As I see it,
> > earlier
> > > forms of Narbonósc looked quite like Occitan.
> >
> > Oc!
> >
>
> Indeed, Narbonósc for "yes" is ouc /u/ :) .
How odd...
_ouk_ in Greek means exactly the opposite : )
Luca