Re: TAKE 2nd verb page updatedc

From: Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>

> This sounds quite baroque, though.
Did someone say baroque?!

> R A Brown writes:
> > As I wrote the use of the definite article instead of a relative
> > pronoun is found in Homer & some dialects.
> The German relative pronoun is very similar to the article.
The Géarthnuns relative pronoun was originally, at least in the nominative,
identical to the definite article, as German was one of the languages I was
studying in my high school daze. It further developed somewhat over the years,
becoming a kind of hybrid between a noun and the article, and then nominal
polarity came onto the scene, but the connection to the article is still
readily apparent (examples in the nom. sing.):

                      def.art./aff.        def.art./neg.        rel.pro./aff.        rel.pro./neg.

1st decl. chö vö chöb vökh
2nd decl.          chau                     vau                   chaur                  vaum
3rd decl. chöi vöi chöit vöidh
4th decl.            cha                       va                      chan                   vap
5th decl. chü vü chük vüd
6th decl. chí ví chíl víf
7th decl.            che                       ve                      cheth                  veg

> > Arguably such clause are
> > adjectival and attributive. Certain this construction is found in
> > medieval Greek, e.g.
> > τὰ βουίδα τὰ ἐλάβετε
> > the oxen  the you-took, i.e. the oxen [which] you took
> Exactly like German:
>   die Ochsen, die Du namst
Here the further developments become evident:

chök zheteraubsöp, chöböch öçek lé hakuzh (sho)
the oxen/nom.-pl, which/acc.-pl. you/nom. past take (sho)

> > εἰς τὸν τόπον τὸν ὁ Θεὸς σὲ ἔδωκεν
> > into the+ACC place the+ACC the+NOM God you gave
> > into the place which God gave you
> Again, like German, except there is no article in front of God.
> Adding the article in parens, it would be:
>
>   an den Ort, den (der) Gott Dir gab
cha dínsav, chanat che Avíaths lé öçkek gamez (sho)
the place/loc., which/acc. the God/nom. past you/dat. give (sho)

> The fronted version needs quite a bit of formal effort that spoken
> language would normally not do.  But it is possible with participles:
I love this!

>   an den Dir von Gott gegebenen Ort
cha dínsav höi öçkek che Avíathsen gameztélönav
the place/loc. HÖI you/dat. the God/instr. given/loc.

("gameztölönav", kindred spirit to the perfect passive particle, is also possible)

> This sounds quite baroque, though.
Music to Kou ears.

Kou