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Re: Old French II

From:Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Wednesday, July 17, 2002, 18:19
On Tuesday, July 16, 2002, at 09:50 , John Cowan wrote:

> Christophe Grandsire scripsit: > >>> Charles li reis, nostre emperesdre magnes, >>> Set anz totz pleinz ad ested in Espagnes. > > [snip] > >> Yep, Old French. > > Okay, since the text dates from 1100, we can agree that anything after > that is French. > >> Well, I don't seem to be able to translate the second line, its syntax >> looks >> much too alien for me :(( . > > Well, I don't want to spoil your fun. For me the key was to realize > that "set" is modern "sept".
Well, yes the {p} is a post-renaissance learned interloper. /pt/ had become /tt/ in western Romance way back in Vulgar Latin times, cf. Italian: sette Catalan: set Spanish: siete Port. sete It was part of the same "learned movement" that stuck {b} into _debt_ and _doubt_ which shouldn't really have them since they are derived from Old French _dette_ and _doute_ respectively. The French have sensibly resisted the attempt in these two words. There were also some quite erroneous attempts to "restore" letters; e.g. _diner_ (<-- V.L. *disjejunare) got spelt 'dipner' from a supposed connexion with Greek _deipnein_ 'to dine', and _savoir_ (<-- Lat. sape:re) got spelt 'sçavoir' [second letter is c-cedilla] from a mistaken connexion with Latin _scire_ 'to know' . Happily the French did not take to these spellings. One false etymology however did stick: a completely silent and unwarranted {d} got stuck into _poids_ (weight) from a mistaken connexion with Latin _pondus_. The word is in fact derived from V.L. *pesU (classical _pe:nsum_). The intrusive {d} was unknown in Old French. set anz totz pleinz all 7 years full
> FWIW, supposedly "ad ested" was pronounced [aD'Est@D].
till summer ? Help - there doesn't seem to be a verb. So, what does it mean? Ray.

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John Cowan <jcowan@...>