Re: Phonotactics of Velian I, or: Phonology of Velian II: The Wrath of John Vertical ;-)

R A Brown wrote:
> Andreas Johansson wrote:
>
>> Quoting R A Brown <ray@...>:
>>
>>
>>> Andreas Johansson wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>> Xhosa has words like _mntu_ (meaning "human" I think), and while I
>>>> don't
>>>
>>>
>>> know
>>>
>>>> exactly how that is pronounced,
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually it's _umntu_ (plural: abantu). The word is two syllables (three
>>> syllables in the plural, of course): um-ntu. The _nt_ is prenasalized
>>> dental plosive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hm. Googling for "mntu" I find Xhosa texts* containing it ... but
>> apparently
>> only following words ending in a vowel. Elision?
>
>
> I guess so. I think my "Xhosa - a Concise Manual" is a little too
> concise at times. It definitely gives the word as _umntu_ (singular) ~
I find I am doing my "Xhosa - a Concise Manual" an injustice. I have
just found this section which states that the initial vowel of noun
prefixes are dropped under the following conditions:
1. If the noun is vocative.
2. if the noun follows a demonstrative.
3. after absolute pronouns (similar in function to the French
disjunctive pronouns, moi, toi etc)
4. After the so-called emphatic pronoun - "the very one", rather like
Latin _ipse_ in function.
5. In the 'axiomatic negative', implying "none at all."
6. After the negative copulative verb.
7. If the noun is used in an indefinite sense which is then qualified
(e.g. "he sent a certain man, Sipho" (mtu uthile uSipho).
8. After the relative possessive "whose".
9. _Before_ the interrogative _ni_(which), e.g. ufuna gaba lini? "Which
hoe do you want?" (igaba --> gaba)
10. Before the enumerative _-mbi_ e.g. ndibone mlambo wumbi "I saw
another river" (umlambo --> mlambo)
11. In class 1 nouns (umu- ~ aba-) after possessive concord affix -ka-.
12. If the initial vowel is u- or a- and follows the locative prefix ku-.
13. for all nouns after the locative prefixes kwa- and e-.
14. If the noun is the second part of a compound.
15. at times in enumerations, e.g. bathenge mahashe, zinkabi, zigusha
"They bought horses, oxen [and] sheep" (amahashe --> mahashe, izinkabi
--> zinkabi, izigusha --> zigusha.

So nothing as simple as liaison   :)

But that _mntu_ occurs as shortened form of _umntu_ must surely confirm
what I previously wrote:
[snip]
>
> I find that in Zulu, which is closely related to Xhosa, the words in
> question are: umuntu /u.mu.ntu/ ~ abantu /a.ba.ntu/. This makes me think
> that the Xhosa _umntu_ is actually three syllable, namely /u.m.ntu/
..and, of course, what you originally wrote, i.e. that the initial _m_
of _mntu_ must be syllabic.


--
Ray
==================================
ray@carolandray.plus.com
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]