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Re: Phonotactics of Velian I, or: Phonology of Velian II: The Wrath of John Vertical ;-)

From:Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@...>
Date:Sunday, July 8, 2007, 11:36
In the last episode, (On Friday 06 July 2007 08:32:17), John Vertical wrote:
> (...) > > >(That's my goal for this make it sound like Finnish, but > >somehow...Not. I could do that vocabularily, but it would also be nice to > > be able to do it phon{etic,ologic,otactic}ally.) > > > >If I do so, is it credible to have a rule that excludes consonant clusters > > "in the Finnish places", except when they begin with a nasal > >(i.e. "tipit", "tipsit", "ntipit", "tipint" but not "titipt", "ptintit")? > > Sure. A cluster analysis could fit better with initial preconsonantal > nasals being phonetically syllabic however. (But phone_m_ically, ie when it > comes to stress patterns etc, treating them as non-syllabic should be OK.)
I see; thanks.
> > BTW, on the subject of "sounding like Finnish but somehow not" one good > solution might be to only allow coronals or homorganic nasals as the > initial member of a cluster, EXCEPT for a few oddballs; Finnish has /ps ks/ > here, but you could have a different selection. Rechecking your phonology, > /v\ L/ could be used for Hungarian-ish flavor; or some subset of /c k q ?/ > for appearing more exotic...
Indeed. I already know that Velyan allows /qs/. It's not entirely what you mean, but whereas in Finnish the presence of /s/ in a cluster stops consonant gradation dead, in Velyan, it doesn't - but there are certain clusters which would be predicted by gradation, if they weren't excluded by the phonology* (e.g. /st/ -> */sr/). In this situation (and others), Velyan metathesises (sp) the consonants, so /st/ -> /rs/. (This also means that the products of consonant gradation of /st/ and /ts/ fall together, i.e. /ts/ also -> /rs/.) Jeff *BTW, where is the boundary between "phonology" and "phonotactics", and does "tonology" ("tonotactics?") fit in there or form a separate "discipline"? -- "Please understand that there are small European principalities devoted to debating Tcl vs. Perl as a tourist attraction." -- Cameron Laird