Re: Imperative vs Jussive vs Hortative

# 1 wrote:
> Sorry for my long absence but my computer had a big problem, now it is
> probably solved, so I'm back.
Welcome back - Bonne Année!
> R A Brown wrote:
>
>>> or am I missing some subtle (or not so subtle)  distinction? I notice
>>> the jussive and hortative are formed with "let" in  English, but is
>>> that part of a larger pattern, for instance?
>>
>>
>> No - it is language specific. In French, the three things are done
>> differently:
>> Hortative: mangeons! (1st pers. pl. present indic.)
>> Imperative: mange! mangez!
>> Jussive: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche! (Que + present subjunctive)
>
>
> Actually, for first person, it is also part of the imperative, the
> ending is the same that for present indicative for most verbs like
> "mangeons!" and "nous mangeons" but different for "être" and "avoir",
> and this is enough to be different moods. "Être"(to be) is "soyons!"
> when imperative and "nous sommes" when present indicative and "avoir"(to
> have) is "ayons!" and "nous avons". The present indicative and the
> imperative are also different for all verb on pronominal form like "se
> laver"(to wach oneself) that is "lavons-nous!" and "nous nous lavons".
You're absolutely right. Textbooks do indeed term the 1st pers. pl.
forms as 'imperative' as well as the 2nd pers. forms; and I'd
half-forgotten 'soyons' and 'ayons'.

IIRC all the imperative forms of these two verbs are identical with the
present subjunctive. But in view of the behavior of all other French
verbs we must say that French has an imperative mood with 1st. plural
and 2nd. pers. sing. & plural forms.

This just re-enforces my point that the use of the three terms
hortative, imperative & jussive is conventional & language-specific.

Ray
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