> On Monday 21 July 2003 05:51 am, Christopher Wright wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:33:00 -0700, Sylvia Sotomayor
> <kelen@...>
> > wrote:
> > > So, Kélen has five stops:
> > > p (labial) t (dental) ts* (alveolar) c (palatal) k
> (velar)
> > > (*ts is often just [s] but is still counted as a stop.)
> > > I've been contemplating some sound change with the goal of getting
> rid
> > > of [p]. Which would be more reasonable?:
> > >
> > > p t ts c k becoming
> > > k t ts c q or becoming
> > > kw t ts c k
> >
> > On Sunday 20 July 2003 10:23 pm, Roger Mills wrote:
> > > Thomas Wier wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think probably the first set, where *p becomes /k/. Arapaho
> > > > underwent a similar process on its way from Proto-Algonkian.
> > > > It's reasonable to think that a pull-chain effect might have
> > > > started with *k becoming [q], leaving an opening for *p to fill.
> > > > It's an unusual change, but I know of no natural language that
> > > > would take *p and turn it into [kw] -- quite the opposite change
> > > > would be expected.
> > > Agreed. Evidently you want to keep it as a stop; my first thought
> was
> > > for
> > > it to fricative [P] or [f], then/or > h, then/or 0. All widely
> attested.
> >
> > Sylvia Sotomayor again:
> > >That is possible, though I'm getting rid of [m], too. [w] will stay,
> > >however. I'm thinking of turning [l] or maybe [r] into something else
> > >as well. Any ideas?
> >
> > For getting rid of /p/, I'd probably collapse /p/ and /k/ rather than
> > turning /k/ to /q/, though I'm no linguist yet, so I don't know how
> > plausible that is. If it isn't, then I'd use those two sound changes
> and
> > collapse /q/ with /k/.
> >
> > It would appear that the Kéleñi have long mouths with which to better
> > distinguish between these stops, no?
> >
> > As for /m/, you could possibly merge it with /w/. I have no idea
> whether
> > that is reasonable, though I hope that this list will come down with
> the
> > giant Stick of Corrections if it is not. I have heard it said that
> > nasalization flows somewhat, and if the Kéleñi only stop closing their
> > mouths all the way, the sound should be /w~/.
> >
> > Devoice /l/, tap /r/. I like those sounds, even if I can't pronounce
> them
> > well.
> >
> > ~Wright
> >
>
> I *like* Nasalized W! Now, how do I represent it orthographically????
> Hmmm.
>
> --
> Sylvia Sotomayor
> sylvia1@ix.netcom.com
> kelen@ix.netcom.com
>
> Kélen language info can be found at:
>
http://home.netcom.com/~sylvia1/Kelen/kelen.html
>
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