Re: sound change question

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:33:00 -0700, Sylvia Sotomayor <kelen@...>
wrote:
> So, Kélen has five stops:
> p (labial)    t (dental)    ts* (alveolar)    c (palatal)    k (velar)
> (*ts is often just [s] but is still counted as a stop.)
> I've been contemplating some sound change with the goal of getting rid
> of [p]. Which would be more reasonable?:
>
> p    t   ts   c   k     becoming
> k    t    ts   c   q     or becoming
> kw  t   ts   c   k
On Sunday 20 July 2003 10:23 pm, Roger Mills wrote:
> Thomas Wier wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think probably the first set, where *p becomes /k/.  Arapaho
> > underwent a similar process on its way from Proto-Algonkian.
> > It's reasonable to think that a pull-chain effect might have
> > started with *k becoming [q], leaving an opening for *p to fill.
> > It's an unusual change, but I know of no natural language that
> > would take *p and turn it into [kw] -- quite the opposite change
> > would be expected.
> Agreed.  Evidently you want to keep it as a stop; my first thought was
> for
> it to fricative [P] or [f], then/or > h, then/or 0. All widely attested.
Sylvia Sotomayor again:
>That is possible, though I'm getting rid of [m], too. [w] will stay,
>however. I'm thinking of turning [l] or maybe [r] into something else
>as well. Any ideas?
For getting rid of /p/, I'd probably collapse /p/ and /k/ rather than
turning /k/ to /q/, though I'm no linguist yet, so I don't know how
plausible that is. If it isn't, then I'd use those two sound changes and
collapse /q/ with /k/.

It would appear that the Kéleñi have long mouths with which to better
distinguish between these stops, no?

As for /m/, you could possibly merge it with /w/. I have no idea whether
that is reasonable, though I hope that this list will come down with the
giant Stick of Corrections if it is not. I have heard it said that
nasalization flows somewhat, and if the Kéleñi only stop closing their
mouths all the way, the sound should be /w~/.

Devoice /l/, tap /r/. I like those sounds, even if I can't pronounce them
well.

~Wright

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