Re: New Survey: Celtic Conlangs (and other lunatic pursuits)
| From: | Sylvia Sotomayor <kelen@...> |
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| Date: | Monday, January 13, 2003, 16:56 |
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On Friday 10 January 2003 10:38, Sally Caves wrote:
> PART I. FOR CELTIC CONLANGERS:
Not applicable.
> PART II: INSPIRATION BY TOLKIEN (tangential to the questions on
inspiration by Celtic languages):
>
> How many of you were inspired to invent a language because of your
exposure to Tolkien?
Me!
> How many of you based your conlang on one of Tolkien's languages,
or your conculture in Middle Earth?
Originally I did. At this point Kélen has nothing to do with Middle
Earth whatsoever.
> How many of you have a constructed world, and, if so, does it
include some of the races we associate with Celtic or Scandinavian
mythology? (Elves, Dwarves, medieval societies of humans, Faeries or
Fays? Selkies? Wizards?)
The Kéleñi people started out as elves. Now they are humanoid
aliens, or maybe genetically modified humans. The térji might be
shape-shifting dragons, still. Or at least, as aliens, they might be
best understood as shape-shifting dragons.
> How many of you were inspired to examine Welsh, Hebrew, or Finnish
because of your examination of Tolkien?
Actually, my inspiration to take Welsh in school was entirely due to
Evangeline Walton.
> How many of you were inspired to invent a conlang or a conculture
because of some influence OTHER than Tolkien?
Star Trek and years of reading good and bad fantasy have contributed
a lot, too.
> How many of you were inspired to invent a language because you
engage in Roll-Playing Games?
Nope.
> How many of you were inspired to invent a language because you
heard of this listserv?
Nope.
> How many of you are members of the Mythopoeic Society, or the
Society for Creative Anachronism, or other High Fantasy Groups?
Guilty. SCA, College of St. Katherine, for 4 or so years.
> PART III: NON-CELTIC CONLANGERS:
> In the discussions I've witnessed on Conlang in almost five years,
I've observed that many conlangers have deliberately avoided
"Tolkienesque" languages, and even Indo-European languages as models
for conlangs, and especially the "Celtic." Why? Boring? Overdone?
Trite? Too pretty? Too Western? Or none of the above--just more
interested in something else?
At some point in the past, I decided that Kélen was a non-human
language, and so I've been trying to violate a human universal or two
in creating it. This means looking at the whole range of the possible
in human languages and reading a lot of theory (which can make my
brain hurt.) Pretty is something I still strive for, which is why I
still have something close to Spanish phonology. Exotic is also
something I strive for, provided it makes sense in the greater
context of things Kélen.
> <G> I don't want to give the impression that I think we conlang
only because of Tolkien, and that anything we invent has to be
INSPIRED BY or a DEPARTURE from the "Great One"; but in this question
I'm eager to see some eschewal of or at least indifference towards
the Tolkien, the "Celtic," and/or even the Indo-European model.
> What is your name and what do you call your conlang?
Sylvia Sotomayor, and Kélen.
> So what is unappealing about the Indo-European model for
conlanging? Or Tolkien's Elvish?
Nothing.
> How did you start conlanging? What was your initial inspiration?
Tolkien.
> Did you know about Tolkien's inventions? Read the books, the
appendices? etc. Or not?
Yes. Yes. Yes.
> What language types have you modeled your language(s) after?
Noun-y languages, and some Native American features, taken out of
context, just because they're so cool.
> What features of these languages or language types appeal to you?
Dealing with all the arguments in a clause without relying on the
semantic content of the verb.
> Some of you, and I'm thinking in particular of a conversation I had
with And Rosta, are not interested in producing a language that is
"mellifluous"--that "mellifluousness" is a thing to be avoided in
your conlang and especially as it is associated with Tolkien's Elvish
or copiers of Elvish. Is this so? Why?
Not me. "mellifluousness" is to be desired.
> For how many of you, though, is beauty and/or efficiency a factor
in your language? Or elegance? How would you define these terms?
Define? I knows it when I sees it.
> For how many of you is the "exotic" a desired feature of your
invented language?
Definitely me.
> How many of you invent a non-human language? And if so, how alien
are its sounds and constructions?
The sounds aren't so alien, but some of the constructions make my
head hurt.
> Do you prefer inventing an a posteriori language or an a priori
language? In other words, how many of you invent a language wherein
you base it closely on a natural language (Arabic, Tagalog) or a
combination of languages, and how many others of you invent a
language from, well, scratch? (if that can be done.)
A priori.
> How many of you invent a language based on a particular type
(Ergative, Accusative, Trigger, etc.)?
There are traces of ergativity in Kélen, but only traces, and that's
because I don't really have verbs.
There are also traces of trigger or focus in Kélen. Each relational
(there are four of them) takes a different kind of object: LA takes
an absolutive noun, something that exists. PA takes a whole,
something that has parts. SE takes an absolutive that is or has moved
from a source to a goal. And NI takes a patient, something that has
undergone a change in state.
> To what degree is difficulty and irregularity of language important
to you in your conlang? what natural language eccentricities (or
efficiencies) do you like and try to reproduce?
Well, I want it to be alien, so it ought to be somewhatly difficult
for us poor humans.
> To what degree is accessibility, efficiency, and regularity
important to your conlang? What natural language "faults" are you
correcting?
n/a
> How many of you invent logical languages?
> How many of you invent IALs?
n/a
> How many of you have invented non-Tolkienesque or non European
concultures and what are they like?
The Kéleñi are alien, and so have a matrilineal, matrilocal,
matriarchal culture. They have, or at least have had, sophisticated
technology, and they prefer to live in large groups. Details are
still nebulous. To a certain extent, I only have enough culture to
make the language more "real". But I'm working on it.
> How many of you started out by pulling words out of the air,
originally? How many of you have chosen a more methodic form of
vocabulary building? I.e., how have you gone about setting up the
framework for your words and your grammar? (I started out pulling
words out of the air.)
Oh, definitely. Way back when, words were created because they
sounded right. These days, I have a list of all possible roots, and
when I need a new word that can't be derived from an already existing
word, I go to that list and pick one.
> PART IV: THE LUNATIC SURVEY REVISITED (because we are all "fous du
> langage," according to Yaguello and other French critics.
>
> Why do you conlang? Who will speak it? Read it? What's the
point? What's the beauty? what's the intellectual draw? To what
would you compare a conlang? Is it a miniature? Is it a model? Is
it a tapestry? Is it an act of obsession and madness? <G> Or is it
a communicable language?
I call it my long-term art project. I do it for my own health and
well-being and to hell with the rest of the world. But then, I think
of my entire pursuit of knowledge and understanding as building a
mosaic model of how the universe works.
> If it is a communicable language, to whom do you speak it?
Nobody. Though occasionally my friends will ask me how to say
something in Kélen.
> To what extent is the opacity or "alterity" of your language
something that pleases you? In other words, the sounds and the
script have, even for you, a quality of being foreign, and this
delights. Comment? (I know that when I make maps of cities, and
imagine myself in them, they delight me because they are both
familiar and foreign at the same time.)
Oh yes, the coolness factor in an alien language surpasses all
others.
> This is a difficult question: how is it that a word sounds "right"
to you? We recently discussed this. To what extent are you finding
righter, better words for the world in your conlang? (Perhaps
unanswerable).
This is like defining beauty and elegance. I can't.
> How many of you are fictive map-makers, designers of fictive floor
plans, fictive yachts, fictive star-ships, world-builders,
calligraphers, cartoonists, etc.? (These pursuits have been
associated with conlanging. I've done most of them.)
Guilty.
> How many of you have a special script in your conlang? If you use
Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing system? In
other words, do you use unconventional letters to represent sounds?
Why?
I have a Roman script for Kélen, and it's mostly phonemic, but I
don't have many unconventional letters as I didn't have that
technology when I first computerized my notes. I also have Kélen
scripts. These can currently be found at
http://www.qistech.com/KRG/writing.html
> This is a question Heather asked, but I also asked it four years
ago: how many of you write in your language? What do you write? How
many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that
purpose?
I write in Kélen, or rather I attempt to, but i don't usually keep
what I write. I don't sing.
> How many of you started conlanging when you were a teenager and
have stuck to the same language over many years? Why?
It's always been called Kélen (or Kelenian), but it has changed
radically several times in the last 20 years. I wouldn't feel
comfortable starting a new language without "finishing" this one.
Though I do have ideas for sister and daughter languages.
> How many of you change conlangs regularly, developing structures
for many languages but not sticking with any one for very long? Why?
See above.
> For how many of you does your language function as a spiritual
instrument? This is a deeply personal question--let me give you an
example. When I first started inventing "Tayonian" in my early
teens, what I wrote were spells and prayers. They had a talismanic
quality. Does that ring a bell for anybody?
The original Kelenian was a had a highly romantic quality for me,
and at that age, romantic = spiritual especially to an atheist.
> For how many of you was your language at least at one stage of its
making meant to fool others, or to write secret diaries? (Me, waving
my hand).
Not really.
> How many of you can speak your language, at least to yourself and
your pet? child? spouse? <G> To what extent?
Barely, but occasionally to my cats.
> How many of you have put up websites where your language can be
showcased? If so, what is the website address?
The current (incomplete) revision is at:
http://www.qistech.com/KRG/
The older version is at:
http://home.netcom.com/~sylvia1/Kelen/kelen.html
> How many of you have made soundbytes of your language so the rest
of us can hear it? If so, give the site.
Nope. I can barely pronounce it, much less make a sound recording.
> How many of you are comfortable talking to your boss, your
professors, your family members about this pursuit? How many of you
have received condescending or other negative responses to your
disclosure? (I have.) Or even been called "pathological"? If this
attitude is changing, to what do you attribute the change? (On New
Year's Eve, a delightful, elderly gentleman could not understand why
I would be interested in this pursuit. What purpose could it serve?)
I don't bring it up, but I don't hide it either. My Mom is
somewhatly condescending about it, calling it one of my anti-social
traits. No one has called me pathological.
> For how many of you is the damning statement "better to learn real
languages than invent private ones" a criticism you have encountered?
What would be your response to such a remark?
No one has ever siad this to me. My response would probably
emphasize that to me this is art, not reality.
> PART V: GENERAL DEMOGRAPHICS:
>
> What is your age (optional--and can be general: 30-40, for
instance).
36.
> What is your profession or your station in life (i.e., if you are a
student, what is your MAJOR; if a middle or high-school student, what
is your intended major)?
Academic Sales Rep.
> What is your gender?
F
> What is your nationality and your native language?
Californian, and English.
> What natural languages do you speak or have studied?
German, and some Spanish.
> How many of you have chosen a profession in linguistics because of
your interest in inventing languages? Or plan a profession in
linguistics?
I sorta fell into linguistics not because of Kélen, but because it
was easy and I needed to bring my grades up. Once there, the
possibilities for revising Kélen were obvious and compelling.
> What have you learned from conlanging?
Lots of linguistics.
> What texts on language and linguistics have you consulted to help
invent your language?
Corbett on Number and on Gender, Payne on Morphosyntax, and about
20-30 other texts...
> Do you know of anyone who has not connected with the Internet or
the List who has invented a language? (I'm firmly convinced that
"conlanging" has been a private pursuit for many people long before
the list started, but that the list has increased its visibility as
an art).
Nope.
> Can you give me a short sample of your language with interlinear
description and translation?
pa anmárwi jajúna jajíra xámorte la anmári án mo mélien;
PA "world" "center" "valley" Xámorte LA "home" "one" for "people"
REL N.COLL N.SG N.SG NAME REL N.COLL # CASE N.DS
PA syntax is: PA (whole (part (part)))
Nouns of the same form adjacent to each other usually refer to the
same thing.
LA syntax is: LA N N.Equivalent
LA as a subclause renames the noun it follows.
"mo" is a benefactive case marker.
A number after a collective counts the members of a set: first,
second, third, etc.
So:
The world, its center, the valley of Xámorte, the first home of/for
the people.
"The center of the world is the Valley of Xámorte, the first home of
the people."
> Would you object to my mentioning your conlang/and or your name in
my talk? I will be discreet about some of the more personal questions
you answered.
Feel free.
--
Sylvia Sotomayor
sylvia1@ix.netcom.com
The Kélen language can be found at:
http://home.netcom.com/~sylvia1/Kelen/kelen.html
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