Re: Noun and noun or noun

Mathias wrote:

>=20
> How do your conlangs deal with definite, abstract, collective, etc. nou=
ns ?
>=20
Drasel=E9q doesn't have grammatical markers for those
categories, but I've collected several suffixes for
them. Definite nouns take a lot of forms. Abstract
nouns often show the suffixes -as (concrete abstract),
-ain (state), or -ar (verb noun):

_not_ "time" (as in "Now is the time")
_notas_ "time" (as in "Time goes by")
_gadain_ "life" (the root is verbal, gad-)
_badas_ "fun" (as in "I'm having fun")
_badar_ "fun" (as in "I'm creating fun")


Collective nouns are just like other nouns. Two very
common collective markers are -ong and -akt:

_ren_ "man"
_renong_ "platoon" (in a broad sense)
_feun_ "war" (or "warfare"... maybe _feunas_ could do)
_feunakt_ "army" (well, the collective sense is a bit
twisted here... I think -akt was formerly an independent
word meaning "[pieces of] equipment").


Some collective nouns are transformed into definite nouns
with the "individual" suffix -ig:

_smalk_ "skeleton"
_smalkig_ "bone" (especially when it's part of a full skeleton).

BTW -ig is also used in people's names when naming just one
person. I mean, your family is called "the Simpsons", but
you're "Bart Simpson-ig" ("one of the Simpsons"). (Sorry for
the example, I didn't have any famous names handy. :)


Finally, there *is* one grammatical suffix, used to form
the group plural, -(h)adh:

_ren_ "(a/the) man"
_renth_ "(some/the) men"
_renhadh_ "the men"

The verb goes in the plural with a group-plural noun, so
it's not collective. The group plural is used for things
that form natural groups (such as fingers, hands, eyes)
and whenever you want to emphasize the existence of such
a group (as a side effect, this also makes the noun definite).

The verb conjugation and the pronoun system, BTW, only
distinguish singular and plural, so the group plural is
probably a late development in the ancient language.


> tike : finger
> tatike : hand
> tetatike : the other hand
> totatike : both hands
> titatike : a/the hand
Very interesting, tho a bit confusing (phonetically).
In Drasel=E9q that would be

_vaid_ "(a/the) finger"
_idan_ "(a/the) hand"
_kaft idan_ "(the) other hand"
_=EDdanhadh_ "both hands"
_idnis_ "the hand"
(-is =3D unique singular, _idnis_ as in "the Hand of God";
the vowel syncope is regular).

I forgot the unique singular... that's a derivative affix
gone grammatical, but considered a bit pedantic.)
_Kaft_ "other" was originally an adjectival verb, surviving
as an archaic word _k=E1fid(en)_ "(to be) different". The
meaning weakened and generalized in early Drasel=E9q.


--Pablo Flores