Shaquelingua and Teonaht (was: discussion of verbless languages)
|From:||Sally Caves <scaves@...>|
|Date:||Tuesday, June 8, 2004, 23:54|
----- Original Message -----
From: "Remi Villatel" <maxilys@...>
Sally uarly krespr:
> > We have a few minor things in common:
> We have more in common than you think. Especially, we have a lot of dual
> pronouns in common. Shaquelingua also have exclusive and exclusivepronouns.
> But what really make me laugh is your very unusual use of the char "u"[j].
> My very special char is "y" [H] (i.e. [y] as a semi-vowel) or [w]sometimes.
I got some criticism for that when I first joined CONLANG... someone
described it as "counterproductive." I'm very proud of it. It goes way
back to my salad days when I didn't know a durn thing about scripts.
> Shaquelingua can also use preposition to express possession.
As can quite a number of European languages, Welsh being one, French being
one, comme tu sais... (of the languages I know at all). Does Shaquelingua
make a distinction between alienable and inalienable possession? Teonaht
has three different ways to express "having" something; something you have
nonvolitionally by virtue of its being an innate thing, such as a body part,
a disposition, or a family member; something you own by having taken or
bought it volitionally; and something that is with you presently, like a
pencil, but which you acquired somewhat indifferently. This last makes use
of the preposition, and the preposition changes depending on tense... this
might be dispensed with if it proves too ambiguous and confusing. "A car
from-me it got its striking." "I had a car (not that I bought it or
anything) that got hit."
> sóju fra-jitirër køfalja [sOja fxa:jitixEx k9fa.lja]
> = (about) the truth of (the) concept(s)
> That stative/motive nuance of your locative prepositions matches the oneof
> shaquean locative postpositions, except that I haven't found a name forthat
> nuance yet.
I don't have a name for it either, just locative prepositions. Preps can be
posts, too, in T. in certain circumstances.
> vi yiklis suku [vi Hi.k4is suku]
> the door at (stative)
> vi yiklis suvi [vi Hi.k4is suvi]
> the door at (motive)
> Luckily, the "into", "out of", "up on", etc shaquean postpositions aren't
> built the same way as in Teonaht... otherwise I would sue you forcopyright
> violation! ;-) (Just kidding.)
Better not! (Just kidding). They were instated back in the eighties, and
I've been on this list since 1998! :) I've found that we often borrow from
each other, and whenever we think we've made up something unique and evil,
"a natural language did it even worse." John Cowan pointed out to me (when
I was ranting about an invitation from some fringe group to donate my
language to their role-playing game--"Teonaht seems especially suited for
our Trolls") that a conlang can't be copyrighted. He has reason to know
that. :) So we just ask permission to borrow words, concepts, dinner
invitations, marriage ceremonies, gods...
> be saelóvi-leyo yar te'taj. [be: sa^e4Ovi:4ewo Hax te:taj]
> (case marking) (out in movement)-room (descriptor) (indicative past)'shi
> = He/she entered (the) room.
> Note: "saelóvi" (=from outside to inside of) and "fra" (=part of) are
> postpositions but a grammatical rule allow you to prefix them in order to
> build an adjectival compound.
> Shaquelingua and Teonath both only have adjectives to express gender.
I'm blanking on this one. Where does Teonaht express gender with an
adjective? Gender is almost absent from Teonaht except in the pronouns.
> And I haven't finished exploring your site...
Do you have a site for me to explore? And mine, as ever, isn't complete. I
seem to have stopped building it. Too obsessive. Injures other work.
> > Teonaht uses its future tense in polite discourse to express directives,
> > which sounds "rude" to us: "you [formal] will take the upper road out ofthe
> In Shaquelingua, the future imperative is the common way. Politedirectives
> are built a different way. You must use an irreal mode.
> rar'be vøjhda kos'va SalI ! [xax(a)be: v9j.da kos(o)va: sa4i]
> (descriptor)'(case marking) sitting (imperative future irreal)'the Sally.
> = Would you sit down, Sally!
Well, EXCUSE ME! :)
I think an irreal mode must be added to the polite futuric imperative;
otherwise it could be mixed up with the simple future.
The most common use of the polite futuric imperative is in giving
directions. I use it abundantly in Teonaht recipes. (incomplete as usual:
Great! What a compliment! Firrimby! Me all groveling. Let me put you in
my bookmarks too.
> And formal directives are built with another tense.
> vi tikebar bovi, ske flodje yar keo'rja.
> the (grass area) (on motive), zero step (descriptor)
> (imperative atemporel)'thou
> = Don't ever walk on the grass.
> > http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/whatsteo.html
> You're in my bookmarks.
> zato'kja hej tul, [zato:.kja x\ej tu4] (I will express myself again)
Do! I'm interested in the name, Shaquelingua, and its romance language