Re: Intro to Frankish, was Re: A Franco-Turkic a posteriori language

On Wednesday, January 12, 2005, at 11:03 , Doug Dee wrote:

> In a message dated 1/12/2005 3:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Rodlox@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
>> my historical geography's a mite rusty...weren't there a lot more Turks
>> in/near Byzantium than there were in/near the Crusader states?
>
> Maybe, but I figure that if they succeeded in conquering Byzanitum, they'
> d
> eventually turn their attention southwards towards the Crusaders again.
Yes - one does have to remember that con-histories (or alt-histories) do
not exactly mirror the history of our 'real' world  :)

> Also note that in my conhistory, there will be no Fourth Crusade and sack
> of
> Constantinople to weak the Byzantines.
>
> So I'm assuming both the Byzantines and the Crusaders will weather the
> Turkish storm.
A very different world, then - no Turkish occupation of the Balkans. That
could have many implications for the subsequent history of Europe.

>
>>>  Therefore, there will be a Greek-speaking empire
>> next door
>>> to these Frankish-speakers, which might lead to more Greek influence
>>> than I
>>> initially planned on.
>
>> not neccessarily...the Byzantine Empire might undergo a third change
>> (from
>> Latin-speaking to Greek-speaking to Turk/Arabic-speaking).
>
> It could, but it doesn't seem likely to me under the circumstances.  I
> can't
> think of an example of a sizable country adopting the language of hostile
> neighbors who tried & failed to conquer it.
Indeed not. Also the Byzantine Empire was never Latin-*speaking*. It is
true that until the 6th cent CE the surviving eastern Empire continued to
use Latin as the official, administrative language. But it was not & never
had been the _spoken_ language of the people living there.

It was, I suppose, a bit like England after the Norman conquest when
Norman French was for a few centuries the official, administrative
language. But the spoken language of most remained English. If the English
had taken up speaking the official, administrative language, I would be
typing this in some modern descendant of Norman French  ;)

Between the 6th & 9th centuries, with the collapse of the western Empire &
the separation of the Eastern & Western Churches, Latin became supplanted
by Greek - the language of both Church and the common people - and the
empire changed from late Roman to Byzantine.  But it must be said the
official language was still not the spoken language of the people - it was
the Atticizing Greek of the late Hellenistic period - but it was now a
good deal closer to the spoken language than Latin had ever been  :)

Ray
===============================================
http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown
ray.brown@freeuk.com
===============================================
Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight,
which is not so much a twilight of the gods
as of the reason."      [JRRT, "English and Welsh" ]