Re: Futurese

Javier wrote:
>
> >>If you want a language to be "as neutral as possible", you
> >>shouldn't consider that much that there are languages "more
> >>important" than others.
> >
> >I think this is a new one - an IAList who puts treating languages the
>same
> >above treating people the same.
>
>Please, could you explain me what exactly do you mean
>with that?
It appears to be more interesting for you that a given percentage of
languages have feature X, than what percentage of humans speak a language
with feature X. Most IALists (people who construct artificial languages for
use as international auxilliary languages) want their language to be easy
for as many people as possible, and therefore takes the opposite attitude.
>
>
> >> >>> for the liquids (/l/ and /r/), 96% of the languages used at least
> >> >>> one, 72% used more.
> >> >
> >> >Not helpful.  Somewhere about a quarter of the world's population
>speak
>a
> >> >language with only one.
> >>
> >>And about two thirds of the world's population speak
> >>languages which do distinguish l/r. So why granting
> >>that privilege to that quarter and not granting a
> >>similar privilege to the rest?
> >
> >Were I you, I'd stop worrying so much about fairness and take a more
> >pragmatic approach.
>
>And may I know what Your Highness understands by "taking
>a more pragmatic approach"?
>
Instead of asking yourself "is it fair to include this?" you should ask
youself "would including this increase my language's chance to succeed as an
international auxilliary language?".

>
> >Would you care to specify the exact prescriptionist values of the
>Futurese
> >vowels? English (many varieties thereof, at leat) has sounds clsoe enough
>to
> >each of the classical five vowels.
>
>Why do you call them "classical"? Because they're the
>vowels of the "classical" language Latin?
Well, yes. And because they're about the commonest vowels around the globe.

>
> >The vowels in eg "pin", "bed", "far", "spot", "pull", in my RPoid
> >pronunciation (I'm sure natives with different dialects can offer similar
> >lists), are close enough to the classical five that I find it very hard
>to
> >believe that speakers of a /i e a o u @/ language would recognize 'em
> >(altho' of course they may think I've got a funny accent).
>
>Yes, but if you want to pronounce them "properly", you'll have
>to do some effort (I'm not sure to what extent since I have no
>idea how the vowels of your dialect sound).
Certainly. As for my "dialect", I'm a non-native speaker, and have [I E A O
U] in the above words.

[snip]
> >> >>>Where you're most likely to encounter languages that merge
> >> >>> L/R is around the Time Date Line, that is, in parts of East Asia
> >> >>> and Oceania, and the speakers of languages from other areas ins-
> >> >>> tantly identify the merging of L/R as a local habit of that geo-
> >> >>> graphical region.
> >> >
> >> >China is actually a not insignificant part of East Asia - and a
> >>reasonable
> >> >distance from the Time Date Line.  But the same merging is, in fact,
>not
> >>by
> >> >any means unknown among native African languages.
> >> >
> >> >[snip]
> >> >>> So, as you can see, when designing the sound system of an IAL it
> >> >>> is not possible that you take into account such local habits of
> >> >>> pronounciation
> >> >
> >> >Sorry, writing off the speech habits of the Chinese who form not an
> >> >inconsiderable part of the earth's population as "local habits of
> >> >pronunciation" seems to me very patronizing.
> >>
> >>That considerable part of today's Earth's population (those
> >>figures may change in the future) lives in a very localized
> >>part of the world.
> >
> >China's got a quite substantial fraction of the planets population for
> >pretty much all of recorded history, so I rather doubt that is about to
> >change. But since you seem to prefer democracy of languages to democracy
>of
> >speakers, that's a pretty moot point.
>
>The same as above, most sincerely I don't get neither
>the point of your words nor the one of your derogative
>attitude.
I don't understand what "above" you're refering to, but I just pointed out
that China's population has been a relatively stable fraction of the world's
for a very long time. And what derogative attitude? I have certainly said
not that "to prefer democracy of languages to democracy of speakers" is
necessarily wrong - I merely find it a surprising attitude from an IAList.

                                                  Andreas

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