Re: very confused - syntax question

Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 04/07/99 13:49:17  , vous avez =E9crit :

> The mediopassive seems to be where you use a subject that would
>  ordinarily
>  be the object of its transitive verb:  the soup cooks (rather than one
>  cooks
>  the soup, or the soup is being cooked).  I don't know; maybe these terms
>  are interchangeable.  Soup is acting on itself.  Soup cooks (itself).
>  But
>  I see a slight difference in these examples.  I wonder how Jennifer is
>  using middle voice.  "with my brothers they won the prize for
>  themselves?"
>  or: "with my brothers the prize wins for them"?=20
medio-passive !!! :-)
thanks for this definition :-) i kept calling it "anti-passive"
because the only word i knew was "middle voice"
and this is not the same concept as you point it. it is rather a way
to swap agent and patient. but maybe Teonath does not need
that since it already has a volitional/unvolitional that may point
at the right agent or patient (?)

houses sell well,
birds look nice,
rice cooks quickly...
prize awards now ;-)

japanese is full of medio-passive verbs.
i use it with every single transitive verb and i keep it transitive :

i see the flower > the flower appears-to me
boku-wa hana-wo miru > hana-wa boku-ni mi-e-ru=20
me-(NOM)-TOP flower-ACC see > flower-(NOM)-TOP me-OBL appear
=20
i don't think it is the same as : "flower sees for itself" or other greek
interesting middle voice as i remember it (kta-omai etc.) like Ray explains=20
it.

thanks a lot again, Sally !

mathias