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Re: very confused - syntax question

From:From Http://Members.Aol.Com/Lassailly/Tunuframe.Html <lassailly@...>
Date:Sunday, July 4, 1999, 13:21
Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 04/07/99 13:49:17  , vous avez =E9crit :

> The mediopassive seems to be where you use a subject that would > ordinarily > be the object of its transitive verb: the soup cooks (rather than one > cooks > the soup, or the soup is being cooked). I don't know; maybe these terms > are interchangeable. Soup is acting on itself. Soup cooks (itself). > But > I see a slight difference in these examples. I wonder how Jennifer is > using middle voice. "with my brothers they won the prize for > themselves?" > or: "with my brothers the prize wins for them"?=20
medio-passive !!! :-) thanks for this definition :-) i kept calling it "anti-passive" because the only word i knew was "middle voice" and this is not the same concept as you point it. it is rather a way to swap agent and patient. but maybe Teonath does not need that since it already has a volitional/unvolitional that may point at the right agent or patient (?) houses sell well, birds look nice, rice cooks quickly... prize awards now ;-) japanese is full of medio-passive verbs. i use it with every single transitive verb and i keep it transitive : i see the flower > the flower appears-to me boku-wa hana-wo miru > hana-wa boku-ni mi-e-ru=20 me-(NOM)-TOP flower-ACC see > flower-(NOM)-TOP me-OBL appear =20 i don't think it is the same as : "flower sees for itself" or other greek interesting middle voice as i remember it (kta-omai etc.) like Ray explains=20 it. thanks a lot again, Sally ! mathias