Re: Idioms (was Website update)

Tom Wier wrote:
>
> Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
>
> > Irina has updated the dictionary, and I've done pages
> > on the script (a pig to load, I'm afraid)
>
> Is this a Dutch idiom?  Interesting.  Here's another interesting
> topic that I haven't seen much on the list before (at least that
> I can remember):  idioms.  What idioms do people have in their
> languages?
This topic was raised a year ago, when I first logged on.
Matt Pearson has some good ones.  Ask him about "empty thunder."

It depends on what you mean by an idiom... on the micro or macro
level.  There are constructions in Teonaht that are part and
parcel of sentence syntax but which are "idiomatic" to it in
that their origins are obscure... like making an adverb out of
a prepositional phrase:  o tystra, "of sudden," means "suddenly."
But why "of"?  or:  "I shudder at going," a very common expression
that means "I'm reluctant to go":   To be cold often means reluctance,
hesitation, or just superciliousness.

                Rin euanrem yrrohon
                "At going I am cold/I shudder"

Here are some idioms of the type I think you're asking us for:

                If you have a hot foot in Teonaht you're getting
                        through a job too quickly, you're irresponsible
                A mole road is the subway;
                If you're caring for Bastet's kittens you've been
                        given a responsibility you can barely handle;
                If Bastet's tail is twitching something unexpected is
                        brewing (either good or bad)
                If you're caught by the monkeydog it means you've lost
                        out through distraction or hesitation
                To seize the caduceus means to regain your health.
                To seize the monkey dog means a really bad bargain.
                etc.

On this macro level, you really do need a whole literature and culture
to provide you with allusions that could work their way into the
language.

On the micro-level:
I'm working on a number of expressions that are combinations of a
preposition
and a verb.  As in Irish and English and many other languages, using a
simple preposition can alter the meaning of both preposition and verb
combined, and confound any attempt to make sense of it logically.  I
have
prepositional verbs in T. but they are too logical:  like cobffenrem,
"to expel" (lit. "to out put"), and I need some weirder ones... like...
and these are just off the top of my head:

                to seize out...  to disappear.
                to have up...  to expect or to think well of
                        (slightly logical)
                to ripen with...  to come to a decision about

Of course these are all backwards in T:  out-seizing, up-having;
with-ripening, etc. Any other suggestions? <G>



> I've always found idioms are a great way to analyze the culture
> and weltanschauung of a people, really quickly)
Yeah, but it's not such a quick process to produce them for a conlang!

Sally Caves
NEW RECIPES UP!  at:
                http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/recipes.html

Made myself sick on the last one last night... too many peppercorns,
so beware!  Best to use fresh cilantro seeds.