Re: German T/V distinction (was Re: Is the list dead?)

Den 24. apr. 2008 kl. 18.55 skrev Philip Newton:
>
> Wikipedia claims (s.v. "T-V distinction") that the term originates
> from Brown and Gilman (1960) based on Latin "tu/vos", and that the
> latter started to become used for the Roman emperor starting in the
> 4th century AD.
Interesting, and it makes sense, as the use of plural for a formal
pronoun seems to be largely confined to the European cultural sphere.
But even before the 4th century I guess the several aristocratic
societies that were around very probably had rules for addressing
across or inside class boundaries. The Hindustani examples and other
Asian forms give some clues as to what they were like, perhaps.

In spoken Norwegian, the formal "De" is almost totally extinct. Even
in formal letters it is very rare now. You can still encounter people
who use it. Mostly elderly, public servants, and/or romantic souls
yearning for the past to come back. To me it sounds cold, and I get
that - have I done something wrong? - feeling. I don't think I've
ever been addressed that way more than a handful times in my life.
The Romans have been cast off, finally.

I haven't done any research about this at all, but from stories I
have read, I get the impression that the formal pronoun was common
enough in towns, but elsewhere there was some preference for using
titles, perhaps with some inspiration from the Swedish system.

I always present myself with full name to strangers, and first name
to others. Simple enough. Titles are very much out as well. When
presenting participants in a TV talkshow, names are mentioned along
with info about their function in society, which may or may not
include titles. Titles of especially high status, like professor for
example, may be used in presentation, but not in conversation.

At school in the 60s it was customary to address a female teacher as
"frøken" - literally "miss" - whether married or not. Male teachers
were just called "lærer" - "teacher". Later we got the habit of using
their last names - first the men, then the women, too. As kids, we
addressed each other with first names and informal pronouns. But
around puberty it became customary among pupils to address each other
with last names. When I and my brother were around at the same time,
they often addressed him as little-Finsen. Occasionally I heard big-
Finsen, too - rather odd since I wasn't exactly big. I'm not actually
sure if the girls had the same habit with last names. Theirs was a
foreign territory merely in the early stages of exploration in those
days.

Later, at the university and work, I've never been addressed or
addressed anyone with anything other than first names, and informal
pronouns. If anyone were to address me by last name now, I'd feel
really uncomfortable, wondering what I had done to offend the person.

LEF

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