Kristian (to Adrian):
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by tightness. If you refering to
> >> aperture, then I'd say that I haven't detected any difference in
> >> aperture between these two vowel sounds. Perhaps its a dialectal
> >> thing.
> >
> >Here's a minimal pair for you: 'could' [kud] vs 'cooled' [kw:ld].
>
> Hmmm... now I'm really having doubts as to whats happening before /l/. I
> need to hear my Brisbane pals again. I suspect your [w:] is really [u-:].
> This actually makes more sense now that I think about it. If /l/ has that
> effect of erasing the [y] glide of long /u/, then [u-y] becomes [u-:]
> before /l/.
I agree.
> >> >> >> For instance, words like "no/know" get rendered as
> >> >> >> [no-y].
> >
> >I really want to hear [y] and [U] next to each other because I'm quite
> >convinced that I *cannot* tell the difference between Australian /u/ and
> >that of most other English dialects I've heard. But I agree with you that
> >the vowel is fronted if I understand the term correctly.
> >
> >Can you name other English dialects in which [y] is used?
>
> Wild guess: Cockney.
Not really.
> I have added below how I recall these vowels spoken in Brisbane. Remember
> that I'm not a native speaker of Brisbane English, so you have to take
> this with a grain of salt.
>
> >-----------------
> >Australian vowels
> >-----------------
> > In Brisbane
> >mat = [b&t] [mEt]
> >mad = [m&:d] [mE:d]
> >mate = [m&it] [majt]
> >might = [mait] [mAjt]
> >met = [met] [met]
> >nit = [nIt] [nit]
> >neat = [ni:t] [nijt]
I'd go for [nIjt] or even [n@j] for _knee_. But perhaps that'd be
too plebeian for Adrian...
> >not = [nOt] [nOt]
> >gone = [gO:n] [gO:n]
> >note = [no-yt] [no-yt]
ish. That doesn't seem quite right, but I won't hazard an alternative.
> >who = [hy:] [hu-y]
> >nook = [nuk] [nuk]
> >fool = [fw:l] (I'm not sure here)
> >bottle = [bOtl:] [bOtl=]
Not really relevant, but one wd expect a tap for the /t/ here.
> >mutt = [mat] [mat]
> >March = [ma:tS] [ma:tS]
> >murk = [mR:k] [mo-:k]
> >air = [e:@] [e:@_^] ~ [e:]
> >ear = [i:@] [i:@_^] ~ [i:]
>
> (Where [@_^] is a schwa with a non-syllabic diacritic)
>
> Note that I never heard any occurences of [&] in Brisbane. All the short
> front vowels are shifted one notch higher compared with say RP English.
>
> >Have I missed anything?
>
> What about "boy" [boj] and "boil" [bojl]?
... which, fortunately, has the distinction of being about the least
mutable of English vowels both cross-dialectally and diachronically
(especially in open syllables).
from a previous message:
> >I listen to more British speech than American. Can you offer
> >the British pronunciations of these phonemes?
>
> There are several dialects alone in the British Isles, so I'm
> assuming you mean RP English. I'll have to rely on my own textbooks
> for this though. According to them, the RP English pronunciations
> of these phonemes are:
.
> Phoneme RP English
> /u/ [u:]
> /U/ [U]
> /o/ [@U]
[u] for /u/ except before /l/ sounds very posh, old-fashioned and actory
(= 'Conservative RP'). Better is [u-].
--And.