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USAGE: Kristian on Adrian's vowel disorder (was: RE: [i:]=[ij]? (was Re: Pronouncing "Boreanesia")

From:And Rosta <a.rosta@...>
Date:Sunday, November 5, 2000, 0:30
Kristian (to Adrian):
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by tightness. If you refering to > >> aperture, then I'd say that I haven't detected any difference in > >> aperture between these two vowel sounds. Perhaps its a dialectal > >> thing. > > > >Here's a minimal pair for you: 'could' [kud] vs 'cooled' [kw:ld]. > > Hmmm... now I'm really having doubts as to whats happening before /l/. I > need to hear my Brisbane pals again. I suspect your [w:] is really [u-:]. > This actually makes more sense now that I think about it. If /l/ has that > effect of erasing the [y] glide of long /u/, then [u-y] becomes [u-:] > before /l/.
I agree.
> >> >> >> For instance, words like "no/know" get rendered as > >> >> >> [no-y]. > > > >I really want to hear [y] and [U] next to each other because I'm quite > >convinced that I *cannot* tell the difference between Australian /u/ and > >that of most other English dialects I've heard. But I agree with you that > >the vowel is fronted if I understand the term correctly. > > > >Can you name other English dialects in which [y] is used? > > Wild guess: Cockney.
Not really.
> I have added below how I recall these vowels spoken in Brisbane. Remember > that I'm not a native speaker of Brisbane English, so you have to take > this with a grain of salt. > > >----------------- > >Australian vowels > >----------------- > > In Brisbane > >mat = [b&t] [mEt] > >mad = [m&:d] [mE:d] > >mate = [m&it] [majt] > >might = [mait] [mAjt] > >met = [met] [met] > >nit = [nIt] [nit] > >neat = [ni:t] [nijt]
I'd go for [nIjt] or even [n@j] for _knee_. But perhaps that'd be too plebeian for Adrian...
> >not = [nOt] [nOt] > >gone = [gO:n] [gO:n] > >note = [no-yt] [no-yt]
ish. That doesn't seem quite right, but I won't hazard an alternative.
> >who = [hy:] [hu-y] > >nook = [nuk] [nuk] > >fool = [fw:l] (I'm not sure here) > >bottle = [bOtl:] [bOtl=]
Not really relevant, but one wd expect a tap for the /t/ here.
> >mutt = [mat] [mat] > >March = [ma:tS] [ma:tS] > >murk = [mR:k] [mo-:k] > >air = [e:@] [e:@_^] ~ [e:] > >ear = [i:@] [i:@_^] ~ [i:] > > (Where [@_^] is a schwa with a non-syllabic diacritic) > > Note that I never heard any occurences of [&] in Brisbane. All the short > front vowels are shifted one notch higher compared with say RP English. > > >Have I missed anything? > > What about "boy" [boj] and "boil" [bojl]?
... which, fortunately, has the distinction of being about the least mutable of English vowels both cross-dialectally and diachronically (especially in open syllables). from a previous message:
> >I listen to more British speech than American. Can you offer > >the British pronunciations of these phonemes? > > There are several dialects alone in the British Isles, so I'm > assuming you mean RP English. I'll have to rely on my own textbooks > for this though. According to them, the RP English pronunciations > of these phonemes are:
> Phoneme RP English > /u/ [u:] > /U/ [U] > /o/ [@U]
[u] for /u/ except before /l/ sounds very posh, old-fashioned and actory (= 'Conservative RP'). Better is [u-]. --And.