Jews in Ill Bethisad: MS *and* the Judajca-speakers? (was: Judajca)
|From:||Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@...>|
|Date:||Thursday, August 22, 2002, 18:41|
On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:01:25 +0100
> > The reason that Mueva Sefarad and Judajca are mutually exclusive
> is that
> > if there were to be an independent Jewish presence in Judea at the
> > of the Expulsion from Spain, the Sefaradim would have gone there,
> > it's just at the other end of the Mediterranean, instead of
> sailing off
> > into the unknown wilds of the Atlantic Ocean.
> Well, couldn't it be that the Jews in Judea lived under the same
> kind of
> oppression as the Jews in Spain?
> One could even imagine a scenario that their situation was actually
> so bad,
> that they decided to take the same boat as well and settled in Mueva
> Sefarad as
> well. It would just mean that the country became bilingual, but
> *here* the Jews are used to that as well, I think.
> May I assume that there is no Birobidzhan in Ill Bethisad?
Birobidzhan is that area in far-eastern Russia where the soviets set up a
"Jewish Autonomous Zone" in order to redirect Jewish Nationalism in
Russia from Zionism to something more Soviet-friendly, right? or
something like that?
I have no idea if it exists *there*... here's what's known about Russia
in Ill Bethisad, from Padraic's "The Cultures of Ill Bethisad" page:
RUSSIA. The modern history of Russia begins with its loss of the 1905 War
with Japan. After the
war, Imperialist Russia became increasingly influenced by Japanese
culture. By 1916, the end of
the Great War of 1914, the Value Creation Party - the political arm of a
banned militant Buddhist
sect - siezed power in a coup that sent the Czar and the Imperial family
into exile in the West
(ending up amongst relations in England). The VCP government ruled the
Russias and several
Eastern European countries with and iron fist for 72 years, spending vast
sums on militarisation,
enforced modernisation, propaganda for Mystic Law and experiments in
reconditioning (picture thousands cramming Moscow's Great Square chanting
"Nam myoho renge
kyo!" in unison). Eventually, the empire outspent its economic base and
collapsed of its own rigid
ideology. Since then, several governments have come to power and have
been overthrown and
many of the constituent regions have declared their own independance.
Several factions in the
country favour the return of the Czar, though the heir to the Imperial
throne has yet to entertain
Also, according to the site, in North America, Alyeska (=Alaska) is
refered to as "Russian territory" and "is largely Inuit, though there are
many Russian towns along the coast and in former gold bearing areas."
And then there's the People's Ecotopic Republic of Oregon, where they
speak a dialect of English, but due to Russian-Alyeskan influence (or
maybe just because they're weird ultra-hippie Ecotopians like in that
book, and want to be different) they write it in Cyrillic.
Hmm... so what could make it so bad in Judea that the Sephardim would
rather sail off into the Atlantic (without knowing if there's land on the
other side; the Expulsion happened within a few days of Columbus's
leaving) rather than go back to their homeland?
It would have to be REALLY bad; after all, the Judeans *there* never
really learned that it's not a good idea to throw yourself at huge
Present conception of Judajca-speaking Judean History:
c.135CE ~ *here* and *there* diverge as Hadrian decides to swamp Judea
with imperial colonists instead of directly punishing the Judeans for the
Bar Kokhba Rebellion. He hopes the colonists will assimilate the native
c.640CE ~ the Islamic conquests sweep across the middle-east, including
Here's something from an old post to Conculture:
Hmm... a little snippet of Judean history that just popped into my mind.
_Ehud Hussinnistri_ [?e'hu:z hUSSinniStri:], hero of the _Rebelljon
Grened Tra Jismagel_ [rEBEl'ljo:n g@rEnEz trO: jiSmO:3el], the Great
Rebellion against Ishmael (=the Islamic Empire) which founded the Third
Commonwealth, which lasted until the time of the Crusaders. Under the
pretext of negotiating the final surrender of Judea to the Caliph Manzur
in Baghdad (who had threatened them with the extermination of the entire
Babylonian Jewish community), he disemboweled the Caliph in 775 CE and
miraculously escaped the palace and led a rebellion which threatened to
break up the empire. Judea declared its independence, but the empire was
too busy trying to stay alive that order was only restored during the
reign of the next caliph, Mehedi. However, Mehedi didn't have time to
retaliate against the Judeans and their coreligionists in the Abbasid
Empire. He died in 785, and during the short reign of his successor Hadi,
the Andalusian and Moroccan caliphates broke off from the Empire. From
then on, the Abbasids generally left Judea alone (except for the frequent
'minor border skirmishes'). Fatimid Egypt was happy to have a buffer zone
against the Abbasids, and the Third Judean Commonwealth survived until it
was overrun by the Crusaders.
Ehud Hussinnistri is considered by those who believe in such things to be
a reincarnation of the Biblical hero Ehud ben Gera who did pretty much
the same thing to King Geglon [3EGlo:n] of Moab.
http://www.uca.edu/divisions/academic/history/crusades.htm has some
interesting maps, btw.
Hmmm... maybe the crusades were a lot more successful *there* then they
were *here*, and so Judea was still under Crusader control (or at least
embroiled in war with them) all the way until 1492? What kind of factor
could make the Crusaders hold on for so long when they had to deal with
not only the armies of the Islamic empire but also Judean guerrilla
Hmm. Does it sound likely that the Muslims would have left Judea alone,
to wait for the Crusaders and Judeans to wipe eachother out, and because
of the smaller amount of resources on the Judean side, the wars would
have lasted much longer, since they didn't have the strength to
completely kick the Crusaders out?
According to a globe i just looked at, the distance from western Iberia
to Newfoundland is only slightly longer than the distance from eastern
Iberia to Israel; it would probably be easier for refugees to sail out
into the open Atlantic towards Mueva Sefarad then to have to try and
dodge Crusader and Islamic warships in the Mediterranean while trying to
get to Judea.
Maybe it could work after all? But having the Crusades continue for an
extra 2 centuries may be too much for the preexisting continuity of Ill
My head hurts from thinking too much about this :-b
"suteikina sutêki ga suki desu."