Re: TRANS: a love poem

FFlores wrote:
>=20
> nicole perrin <nicole.perrin@...> wrote:
> >
> > OK, here's my version of the poem, in Khundr=FBzn.  In my little
> > conculture, however, this poem would not be written in Khundr=FBzn, w=
hich
> > is the men's language, it would be written in Nevok=E1nyi, which is t=
he
> > "lovely language", which is used by women and lovers.  Khundr=FBzn is=
 much
> > more, phallic, shall we say.  But Nevok=E1nyi is undergoing really bi=
g
> > renovations, so I'll translate this poem into Khundr=FBzn anyway (whi=
ch,
> > by the way, Andrew, also follows Tolkien's Orcish phonology loosely, =
in
> > order to make it sound man-ish).
>=20
> How is a language 'phallic'?
Well, in my conculture (which is very underdeveloped), Nevokanyi is the
language spoken by women, and Khundruzn is spoken by men.  Since
Khundruzn is spoken by men, it sounds more guttural and maybe meaner.=20
Both sexes understand both languages, so when a woman and a man speak to
each other (in public) they speak in two different languages (man speaks
in Khundruzn; woman responds in Nevokanyi).  Women rarely speak
Khundruzn, unless they hold some sort of public office where it must be
used for official reasons.  Men speak Nevokanyi with the woman with whom
they are in love, but only in private.  A man speaking the women's
language is a sign of love or affection.

> I think Khundr=FBzn certainly looks Orcish. Though it's also
> loosely Ad=FBnaic-ish (if we're speaking of Tolkien langs).
> Could you tell us how it is pronounced? Are circumflex vowels
> long?
most consonants are pronounced as in English, <g> always being hard.=20
<kh> and <gh> are, as I said, uvular fricatives.  <a>=3D/a/, <o>=3D/o/,
<u>=3D/u/, <i>=3D/i/, and circumflex vowels are long, approx. double the
length of regular vowels.  <th> is a dental /t/, except in the cluster
<thr>, which is pronounced /Tr/.
>=20
> > PROG-progressive particle, also used as an adjectiviser
>=20
> Could you give some examples? I really can't figure it out
> from this text.
The so-called progressive particle is <an>, and it is placed after the
verb.  It can be used in two senses, depending on whether the verb is
conjugated:

aikh  thr=E2n khigholash    an
1SG.F woman calm.3SG.PRES PROG
The woman is calming (v) me

or

snok thr=E2n khigol an   kh=FBzgash
here woman calm   PROG be.3SG.PRES
The calming (adj) woman is here

>=20
> > Daipn Gh=E2rapn
> > REFL.2SG.F lock.PRES.2SG
> >
> > R=FBr  zor daipn      mangh opn        ul gh=E2rapn?
> > What for REFL.2SG.F shell POSS.2SG.F in lock.PRES.2SG
> > Why do you lock yourself in your shell?
> >
> > Aipn  thirzakh      sn=E2, ash aipn  taush     zor nobakh
> > 2SG.F know.PRES.1SG NEG, and 2SG.F DEM.3SG.M for love.PRES.1SG
> > I don=92t know you, and for that I love you.
>=20
> Cool! Did you know you changed the sense of the original text
> and yet produced a nice result? It was supposed to read
> 'Why you lock yourself in your shell, I don't know (it),
>  (and) only for that I love you'. This outcome is meaningful
> and possible too, since the object can be understood in
> Drasel=E9q (as it actually is in 'I love').

Yes, I assumed that the object was understood, I didn't even really
think about it any other way.  At least I didn't ruin it!


>=20
> I hope we can see some Nevok=E1nyi soon, so that we can compare
> with Khundr=FBzn (lovely vs. phallic, which one will win? :)
Maybe, I'll have to revive Nevokanyi first.  Since it was my first
conlang, I started working on it in a sort of haphazard fashion, and its
very cluttered.  But I'm going away for about a week and a half, so
hopefully I'll have time to rethink it and clean things up a bit.

Nicole