Ant: Re: Ant: Palatovelars
|From:||Steven Williams <feurieaux@...>|
|Date:||Sunday, June 5, 2005, 13:48|
--- # 1 <salut_vous_autre@...> schrieb:
> Steven Williams wrote:
> >--- John Vertical <johnvertical@...>
> > > Sooo... anyone ever heard/thought of palatovelar
> > > consonants? I do not mean palatalized velars /
> > > velarized palatals, but rather a place of
> > > articulation between these two. Central vowels
> > > are all common and good, but they never seem to
> > > have even any corresponding semivowels, let
> > > alone obstruents?
> >There is a palatovelar semivowel, namely, [H] (the
> >initial consonant in the French /huite/ [Hit] or
> > the Mandarin Chinese /yuen/ [HVn]). Now, this can
> > be seen as a palatalized [w], but it's definitely
> > a smoothly-pronounced palatovelar semivowel, at
> > least as far as I hear...
> Isn't [H] a labialized palatal? I think that [H] is
> to [j] what [y] is to [i], exactly the same but
> with rounded lips
(makes random syllables with [H], much to the
confusion of the other people in the room)
Cor blimey, you're right! Consider me corrected :).
> I think also that [w] is also only a labialised [M\]
Probably right. I'd consider [M\] to be a delabialized
[w], but only on the grounds that [w] is the more
common, more 'unmarked' phoneme (though there are
languages, such as Japanese, which have [M\] and not
[w] as the 'core' phoneme for that particular glide).
> None of those are palatovelar, it would glides for
>  and [}] but I don't think such glides would be
> analysed as palatovelars but maybe as [j_q] and
Hmm... The fact that we have to kludge like that to
get a palatovelar phoneme seems to tell me that there
is no language, or at least there are very few
languages, that possess such phonemes. Would you say so?
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