Re: OT: Syllable structure in Georgian (was Re: sorta OT: cases, please help...)

In a message dated 12/7/01 1:31:14 AM, trwier@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU writes:

>Quoting laokou <laokou@...>:
>
>> From: "Thomas R. Wier"
>>
>> > Speaking of syllable structure, is there any language out there that
>> > beats Georgian's EIGHT consonants in an onset?
>> >
>> >   gvprckvnis = "He is fleecing"
>>
>> Okay, I'll bite. How is this pronounced? Is "r" vocalic? Minimal
>> pairs?
>
>The short answer is:  there's no real professional data to
>answer that question.  What seems clear is that when /v/
>follows consonants in onsets, its only function appears to
>be to labialize them, having no strong realization itself.
>I suspect that the other main peak of sonority in the "onset",
>the /r/, which is IIRC a uvular trill, probably functions,
>in effect, as a syllable nucleus. This would make my
>question a trick question, I suppose.
According to http://www.armazi.demon.co.uk/georgian/grammar1.html, "The
pronunciation of 'r' varies from that in RP 'rate' to the 'r' in the Spanish
'pero' (a single tap)." I'm not sure what the RP 'r' is, is it the same as
the general American one?

[snip]
>The theory that my phonetics professor espouses (in his
>more whimsical moments, which are legion), is that a syllable
>is basically what you want it to be -- i.e., syllables are
>phonological, not phonetic, targets.  That explains why
>you can find minimal pairs that are distinguished only by
>the number of syllables:
>
>  hire   :  [haI(r] (where /r/ is an alveolar glide)
>  higher :  [haI(r=]
I'm not sure about that.  I pronounce them the same (I'd say /hAi@r\/ for
both). You seem to imply that they're pronounced the same, yet you
transcribed them with different pronunciations (/r/ and /r=/ are not the same
sound; /r=/ and /@r/ are closer). If they're pronounced the same, what
exactly is the difference? If syllablification is totally up to the
individual, what's the point? I could say "no" /no/ and "know" /n.o/ are
minimal pairs. How do we know that "hire" doesnt have 2 syllables, and
"higher" only one?

Josh Roth
http://members.aol.com/fuscian/eloshtan.html

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