Re: 'out-' affix in conlangs?

I have never heard of that phenomenon –– of [ts] being an effeminate
allophone –– but rest assured if that were the case, many Westerners who
attempt the approximation can verily be faulted for effeminacy indeed!
I would say that it is a more s-ish version of ç. More sibilant, I should
say. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_fricative>
Indeed, the XSAMPA for it seems to be [s\].

Eugene

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 2:06 AM, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Eugene Oh <un.doing@...> wrote:
> > [beɪtsɪŋ] is probably the closest pronunciation you can get using English
> > phonemes to the actual Mandarin reading, especially taking into account
> the
> > aspiration of the English /p/.
>
> Thanks. :)  But I would prefer to use the Mandarin phonemes; I'm just
> bad at pronouncing some of them. :)  I can handle the initial
> unaspirated [p], but [ɕ], with or without the [t], eludes me.
> (Actually, I don't even see it on the IPA chart; I'm assuming it's the
> same sound represented by [ç]...)
>
> Isn't pronouncing [tɕ] as [ts] considered an effeminate speech pattern?
>
>  --
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
>