Re: translation exercise

Mathias wrote:
>Tunu:
>Kune tenu a licho i:
>"Chime i nata wa ticha!
>Oi chachama a peno toli chuka chongoma!"
>Wai kami a nata wa ticha
>Wai chachama a toli chani chuka chongoma...
>
>ugh... lots of sad "ch"s here.
Odd-- How did that happen?  I don't recall so many "ch"s in previous
versions.   Reminds me of Kash, with its excessive "ç" /S/s-- I wasn't
thinking clearly when I made that the neuter (most common) plural
ending......but it's too late now.

>Kash:
>kotani mangos:
>kota-ni     mangos
>word-of it  voice
><<<
>i'm mystified by Kaç's "-ni"... :-) at least as much as by Denden's "ga". i
>expected "mangos kotani" instead. i must admit i have a hard time
>"visualizing" what is whose when word order is reverted like here.
Sometimes it mystifies me too, though I consider it one of the neater
features of the language ;-)-- it's most like Indonesian -nya when that's
used to make nouns definite, or verbs > nouns. So "kotani" is pretty much
equivalent to "katanya" 'he/she/it said...'. "Correct" would be _mangos
ya/kota_ 'a voice (it)-said'.

But its main use, not based on Indonesian, is to form possessives of
inanimate nouns; in the Kash view, inanimate things can't "possess". So
"kotani mangos"could also be translated "the word(s) of a/the voice".  And
since it's technically a possessive construction, _mangos_ or any other noun
has to go after.  (Also, as it happens, "kotani" is basically idiomatic for
"he(etc.) said...", similarly "pila/mi/ti/ni" "I/you/he think(s)....", Ind.
pikirku... etc.)

It also pops up in expressions for personal qualities like weight, age,
height, again parallel to Indonesian:
"Ali weighs 50 kg. ~ Ali's weight is 50 kg." -- beratnya Ali, 50 kilo
Kash: kicat/ni Ali 50 cipem  (hmm, I have a fair amount of "c" /tS/
too......-- that's because it derives from 4 or 5 things in the proto-lang.)

Usual plug: There's lengthy discussion of "-ni" (and much more too!) in my
syntax page:  http://cinduworld.tripod.com/kashsyntax.htm ,  scroll to sec.
4, about halfway down; also in sec. 3.4 Genitive case. (Sorry about the
length. I still need some links for navigation)
>
>This being said, i am "experimenting" a very similar suffix "-ng" with
Tunu,
>but with a fixed word order:
>Tenu a mamatung i...
>Voice TOP words-its that...
>The voice's words [were] that...
>
>I find it handy for clause junctions:
>
>example:
>wa konong i...
>with cause-its that...
>"because..."
>
>for now i use attributive mai- "to have":
>wa maikono i...
>with having-cause [which is the fact] that...
>"because..."
>
>Tunu also has an equative lai- "to be":
>wa laikono i...
>with being-cause [of the fact] that...
>"which is why..."
I like all of those......
>
>The new "-ng" suffix would fit very logically as the origin for the "-ny-"
>and "-my-" exo- and endotropic pronominal objective suffixes. actually,
>that's how i created these suffixes. but i hated "-ng" alone because it
also
>meant a serious breach to the years'long golden rule that all Tunu
syllables
>are open!
>oh well, japanese got its final "n" eventually as well...
Looks like it could become very useful.
Perhaps you could consider it a colloquial reduction of an earlier or more
formal **ngV postposition/suffix?

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