Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Tasratal: sketch: connectives (long)

From:Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>
Date:Monday, October 22, 2001, 9:09
En réponse à Yoon Ha Lee <yl112@...>:

> Tasratal has two "classes" of words, connectives (particles or > function > words, I suppose) and substantives (everything else). These > categories > aren't linguistic-formal, they're for my own peace of mind. > Typologically > I suppose this is agglutinating.
Or isolating? Both connectives and substantives
> tend > to occur in "triads" or groups of three words clustered around an > idea, > though substantives in particular will probably have variances in terms > of > numbers-of-words-in-a-cluster. >
I like the idea of triads. Certainly more original than the simple-opposite we see so much.
> > (See previous post for the phonology and romanization scheme.) > > "Existence": > (existence)-demanded: txo > (existence)-uncertain: ga > (existence)-stated: nai > > Possible examples: > "Yoon" txo ~= I *am* Yoon, dammit! > Yoon *will* exist! > "Yoon" ga ~= Are you Yoon? > Is there a Yoon? > "Yoon" nai ~= Yoon exists or is here. > > Note that <txo> can be used in a fashion similar (?) to the Japanese > yo, > <ga> in a fashion similar to Japanese ka. (At least as I understand > them. > ) >
You could also say that "Yoon" ga could mean: I/you/he/she/it may be Yoon. Depending on the tone of the sentence, it could well be a question or an assertion of uncertainty.
> === > > "Copula": > location: at > bearing-quality: xi > identity: en > (With apologies to Payne's discussion of copulas in _Describing > Morphosyntax_ and _Conversational Japanese_.) >
:)))
> Possible examples: > "Yoon" "Stanford" at (ACK! That was *not* intentional...) > ~= Yoon is at Stanford. > "Yoon" "weird" xi ~= Yoon is weird. (As if that were news.) > "Yoon" en. ~= (I'm) Yoon. > > === > > "Possessive": > ownership: san > share-of-status: al (non-ownership "possessive"?) > dissociation: mei > > Possible examples: > "Yoon" san "coat" ~= Yoon's coat (and it's mine, darnit!) > "Yoon" san "sister" ~= Yoon's sister (it's not like I own her) > "Yoon" san "Darth Vader" ~= Yoon has nothing to do with Darth Vader. > (the point is arguable, but...) >
:)) CHzang is gonna like this post :) Hey, 'vader' in Dutch means father. Coincidence? (I never realized that, because in French Darth Vader became Dark Vador - don't ask me why -)
> === > > "Case": > action-against: rau (opposing the object, i.e. "against its will") > action-with: to > action-toward: ge (toward the object, i.e. "with its consent") > (You might say that the agent/actor is "default," hence unmarked.) > > Possible example: > "Yoon" "damage" kyx "Darth Vader" rau "lightsaber" to > ~= Yoon hurt Darth Vader with a lightsaber. (Don't she wish.) > "Luke Skywalker" "Force" to "Princess Leia" ge "safety" kyx > ~= Luke Skywalker saved Princess Leia with the Force. > (I hope I'm not inadvertently offending any Star Wars fans on this > list.) >
Offending anyone you're not, young apprentice. :))) (not that i'm much of a Star Wars fan. I didn't even see the Phantom Menace)
> === > > "With": > unequal-harness: tsy > side-by-side: xun > apart: ken > > Possible Examples: > "Han Solo" "Chewbacca" xun ~= Han Solo and Chewie (as equal partners) > "Obi Wan" "Luke" tsy ~= Obi Wan (primary) and Luke (secondary) > "Darth Vader" "Yoon" ken ~= Darth Vader and Yoon (totally separately > and > individually) >
I wonder what could be the use of ken. Why put together things that have nothing to do together?
> === > > "Causation": > cause-despite: tem > cause-casual: su > cause-intended: kyx > > Notes: So far this is the grammatical workhorse of the language (until > I > realize how many things I can't figure out how to formulate with this > pattern, anyway). The language can be seen as essentially noun-based > (nominal?): > X caused Y to Z. (X = Z is certainly possible.) > > Possible examples: > "Yoon" "milk" rau "spill" tem-tau ~= Yoon spilled the milk (despite > efforts not > to). > "Yoon" "milk" rau "spill" su-tau ~= Yoon spilled the milk (in the course > of > doing something else; it was an incidental side-effect).
A collateral damage is the new term IIRC :)) (sorry, very bad humour :(( )
> "Yoon" "milk" rau "spill" kyx-tau ~= Yoon spilled the milk (and she > meant > to). >
That's mean! :) Looks like you're making an All-Noun language. Was it Nicole Perrin who made another one? (cannot remember the name though)
> === > > "Change": > denying-change: sepf (abbreviates to "sep" before another particle) > accepting-change: lau > untouched-by-change: ki > > "Denying" and "accepting" are a bit deceptive in terms of meaning, but > I > haven't figured out better terminology yet. > > "Yoon" "Darth Vader" ki-rau "harm" kyx ~= Yoon (tries to) hurt Darth > Vader > (who > is unaffected by her pathetic attempt and in fact doesn't even > notice > it). > "Yoon" "Darth Vader" sep-rau "harm" kyx ~= Yoon (tries to) hurt Darth > Vader > (who isn't going to stand for it, but gets nicked while > evading). > "Darth Vader" "Yoon" lau-rau "harm" kyx ~= Darth Vader hurts Yoon (and > by > golly, > she does get hurt). >
I like the precision of the nuances this system gives.
> === > > "Mood" (?): > event-in-progress: rei > event-hypothetical: mas > event-settled: tau > > The nearest thing to tense. > <rei> refers to something that's ongoing with respect to whatever frame > of > reference is being discussed. Call it the progressive mood or aspect > or > whichever. > > <mas> refers to something uncertain: a dream, a work of fiction, a > plan > (past, present or future), a dubious historical "fact." >
What's the difference with 'ga'? Or do you want to restrict 'ga' to questions?
> <tau> refers to something that (at least in the mind of the speaker) is > a > certainty--a future plan, a past event, a current action. > > Murkle. I guess they're all mood/aspect, not tense at all... >
Guess so to. Well, not that it makes it a problem. I love languages with only aspect distinctions, not tense.
> === > > "Comparative": > decreasing/less: ru > increasing/more: ro > equilibrium/same: ffan >
Could be also used for 'become (more/less/as)'? Just an idea. Christophe. http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr Take your life as a movie: don\'t let anybody else play the leading role.

Reply

Yoon Ha Lee <yl112@...>