Re: Tasratal: sketch: connectives (long)

On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 02:09 , Christophe Grandsire wrote:

Pardonnez-moi pour la réponse tardie (? je ne me souviens pas le mot
certamment).  J'avais trop de travail...

> En réponse à Yoon Ha Lee <yl112@...>:
>
>> Tasratal has two "classes" of words, connectives (particles or
>> function
>> words, I suppose) and substantives (everything else).  These
>> categories
>> aren't linguistic-formal, they're for my own peace of mind.
>> Typologically
>> I suppose this is agglutinating.
>
> Or isolating?
>
Possibly, though I conceive of the particles piling on one after another
in a happy linguistic traffic jam.  ^_^

> I like the idea of triads. Certainly more original than the
> simple-opposite we
> see so much.
>
Thanks.  I confess I'm somewhat influenced by the mri culture in C.J.
Cherryh's _Faded Sun_ trilogy (published en français as "Soleil Mort," I
think).  I did hear somewhere that the alien mri's language was basically
Tuareg, but unfortunately I don't *know* any Tuareg.  <sigh>

>> "Existence":
>> (existence)-demanded: txo
>> (existence)-uncertain: ga
>> (existence)-stated: nai
>>
>> Possible examples:
>> "Yoon" txo ~= I *am* Yoon, dammit!
>>                Yoon *will* exist!
>> "Yoon" ga ~= Are you Yoon?
>>               Is there a Yoon?
>> "Yoon" nai ~= Yoon exists or is here.
>>
>> Note that <txo> can be used in a fashion similar (?) to the Japanese
>> yo,
>> <ga> in a fashion similar to Japanese ka.  (At least as I understand
>> them.
>
> You could also say that "Yoon" ga could mean: I/you/he/she/it may be Yoon.
> Depending on the tone of the sentence, it could well be a question or an
> assertion of uncertainty.
>
That works too.  Thanks.  :-)

>> "Possessive":
>> ownership: san
>> share-of-status: al (non-ownership "possessive"?)
>> dissociation: mei
>>
>> Possible examples:
>> "Yoon" san "coat" ~= Yoon's coat (and it's mine, darnit!)
>> "Yoon" san "sister" ~= Yoon's sister (it's not like I own her)
>> "Yoon" san "Darth Vader" ~= Yoon has nothing to do with Darth Vader.
>>                              (the point is arguable, but...)
>>
>
> :)) CHzang is gonna like this post :)
> Hey, 'vader' in Dutch means father. Coincidence? (I never realized that,
> because in French Darth Vader became Dark Vador - don't ask me why -)
>
<blink>  Or "Vater" in German--gosh, you're right, I never thought of that
either.

Completely off-topic, my French class in high school found the French
pronunciation of "Gump" in Forrest Gump highly amusing (we watched part of
a French-dubbed version with English subtitles, and naturally I am ashamed
to confess that other than the two French girls in the class--one a
Parisienne--we were all reading the subtitles frantically).

>> "With":
>> unequal-harness: tsy
>> side-by-side: xun
>> apart: ken
>>
>> Possible Examples:
>> "Han Solo" "Chewbacca" xun ~= Han Solo and Chewie (as equal partners)
>> "Obi Wan" "Luke" tsy ~= Obi Wan (primary) and Luke (secondary)
>> "Darth Vader" "Yoon" ken ~= Darth Vader and Yoon (totally separately
>> and
>>       individually)
>
> I wonder what could be the use of ken. Why put together things that have
> nothing to do together?
>
Hmm...perhaps in a case like the following:
"Yoon and Darth Vader are practicing lightsaber(wo)manship," where the
understanding is that Yoon and Darth Vader *just happen* to be doing the
same thing, but otherwise there's no connection (and they might not even
be aware that they're doing the same thing).  Or rather, the connection is
coincidental.

> Looks like you're making an All-Noun language. Was it Nicole Perrin who
> made
> another one? (cannot remember the name though)
>
Yes.  :-p  Czevraqis felt so verb-focused, I thought I'd swing in the
other direction.

I unfortunately don't remember who else on this list has done an all-noun
language.  Anyone?

>> "Mood" (?):
>> event-in-progress: rei
>> event-hypothetical: mas
>> event-settled: tau
>>
>> The nearest thing to tense.
>> <rei> refers to something that's ongoing with respect to whatever frame
>> of
>> reference is being discussed.  Call it the progressive mood or aspect
>> or
>> whichever.
>>
>> <mas> refers to something uncertain: a dream, a work of fiction, a
>> plan
>> (past, present or future), a dubious historical "fact."
>>
>
> What's the difference with 'ga'? Or do you want to restrict 'ga' to
> questions?
>
Oh, good point.  I suppose <ga> is mostly question-oriented, referring to
uncertainty on the speaker's part, while <mas> refers more to things that
are considered "inherently" uncertain.  Does that work?

>> "Comparative":
>> decreasing/less: ru
>> increasing/more: ro
>> equilibrium/same: ffan
>
> Could be also used for 'become (more/less/as)'? Just an idea.
>
I like.  Will do.  Merci beaucoup pour suggérer les bonnes idées!
(Also pardon any infelicities in the French, I'm trying to get back in
practice.)

YHL

Replies