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Re: Tolerance (was: THE WORLD OF THE JINN)

From:Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Friday, October 17, 2003, 20:13
On Thursday, October 16, 2003, at 10:00 , Joe wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray Brown" <ray.brown@...>
[snip]
> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause any offense, indeed.
I quite certain you didn't. ============================================================= On Thursday, October 16, 2003, at 10:06 , P. M. Arktayg wrote:
> Ray Brown ta nugatu-r: > >> I detest & abominate bigotry. Can't we on Conlang, at least, show a >> little >> tolerance? > > Tolerance? This is an empty word for me. Raymond, if you write > "understanding", then I agree.
I agree that understanding is very important. But in this case I am of the opinion that tolerance is also important. I think I understand, e.g., the central Nazi doctrines - but I find Nazism loathsome and IMO not worthy of toleration. In the case of Islam, yes, I agree understanding is important; but ignorance IME is too often born from a lack of tolerance. ========================================================================= On Thursday, October 16, 2003, at 08:57 , Andreas Johansson wrote:
> Quoting Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>: >
[snip]
>> Sad that someone finds it unexpected. > > Well, (traditional) Christianity wouldn´t expect Muslims getting to > heaven.
Eh? "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841. I should, perhaps, make clear that the preceding paragraph has talked of the Jews and considered that "The Jewish faith........is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant". Thus the "also" in the first line above is to be understood as 'others besides Christians & Jews'; and the first place amongst others are the Muslims. I was under the impression that only conservative fundamentalist & some cults took such an exclusive view of Heaven as Andreas suggests. I would truly be sad to learn otherwise. ========================================================================= On Thursday, October 16, 2003, at 11:05 , Paul Bennett wrote: [snip]
> Well, as I understand it, each stage of (at least the one main branch of) > the Judeo- > Christian mythos is inclusive of the previous stages, but believes that > the essential > message of God's word has been misinterpreted or forgotten by the previous > stages. > > Thus, in the hierarchy > > Jews --> Christians --> Muslims --> Sikhs
Too simplistic, Paul. Where, for example, do the Druze and the Baha'i faith fit into this supposed hierarchy?
> At any point on the line, the people at that point believe that > themselves and the > people to the left of them are allowed into heaven, and that people to > the right of > them are heretics.
Again, too simplistic - see my reply to Andreas above. And being a heretic is not automatic condemnation. If one is born into heresy and knows nothing else, it would be an unjust Deity that denied such a person heaven. "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who, nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their action to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - these too may achieve eternal salvation." Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 847. Seems to me the silent majority of ordinary, faithful Muslim and Sikhs fit the above description, even tho they are on the right. Ray =============================================== http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown ray.brown@freeuk.com (home) raymond.brown@kingston-college.ac.uk (work) ===============================================

Replies

Paul Bennett <paul-bennett@...>
Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>