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Re: CHAT: Strictly CHAT: Uniates and sacraments (was: Brithenig/Aelyan

From:Raymond Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Friday, April 14, 2000, 21:06
At 11:06 am +0200 14/4/00, BP Jonsson wrote:
>At 20:55 13.4.2000 +0100, Raymond Brown wrote: > >>Hopefully because the reasons for the schism are healed. I would dearly >>love to see a heaking of the schism between my Church & the Orthodox >>communities before I leave this world. > >I can't see how that would happen without either you being well nigh >immortal or very great concessions on the part of your own church: stepping >back on infallibility
I think not. The Orthodox surely believe as much as we Catholics that Holy Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and that, altho individual leaders may be scoundrels & may even hold erroneous opinions, when the Church solemnly defines a doctrine to be held by all the faithful it will be preserved from error, i.e. the infallibility of Mother Church is common to both traditions. Papal infallibility does _not_ mean a Pope says nothing wrong! The question is just where the Pope and the other Patriarchs & bishops fit into this and I don't think the problem is insuperable given goodwill on both sides.
>and accepting that the holders of all the ancient >patriarchates assume the titles_papa_ and
In fact all priests in the Greek tradition hold the title :)
>_vicarius dei_ would be the very least, I think.
Not one of the Pope's titles. But even 'vicarius Christi' is not IMO insuperable - indeed to some extent other Patriarchs are, as are bishops.
>I you are saying that you would prefer that to the present state of affairs >I suppose you are quite in a minority, aren't you?
Not at all - my experience is quite to the contrary. IME the divisions of Christendom are are scandal and there is a great desire to heal the ancient schism. I remember once being told I'd never hear the Mass celebrated in English during my lifetime. How wrong that person was! And I most sincerely hope you are wrong about my having to be well nigh immortal in this world to see the great schism healed.
>(Or do you perhaps have a Neon Henotikon and a plan to become ho Basileus >ton Basileon hid away in your drawer? ;-)
To which at 2:11 pm -0400 14/4/00, John Cowan replied: [....]
>Nahh. Ray told us long ago that he belongs to the populares, not the >optimates.
Quite right too. Kings and emperors have worked enough mischief in the history of Christendom (and elsewhere) - Enough of them!!! No - no Neon Henotikon, no King of Kings - just faith, and hope and love, and a belief in the power of the Holy Spirit. I never rule out miracles. Ray. ========================================= A mind which thinks at its own expense will always interfere with language. [J.G. Hamann 1760] =========================================