Re: CHAT: Strictly CHAT: Uniates and sacraments (was: Brithenig/Aelyan

At 11:06 am +0200 14/4/00, BP Jonsson wrote:
>At 20:55 13.4.2000 +0100, Raymond Brown wrote:
>
>>Hopefully because the reasons for the schism are healed.  I would dearly
>>love to see a heaking of the schism between my Church & the Orthodox
>>communities before I leave this world.
>
>I can't see how that would happen without either you being well nigh
>immortal or very great concessions on the part of your own church: stepping
>back on infallibility
I think not.  The Orthodox surely believe as much as we Catholics that Holy
Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and that, altho individual leaders may
be scoundrels & may even hold erroneous opinions, when the Church solemnly
defines a doctrine to be held by all the faithful it will be preserved from
error, i.e. the infallibility of Mother Church is common to both traditions.

Papal infallibility does _not_ mean a Pope says nothing wrong!  The
question is just where the Pope and the other Patriarchs & bishops fit into
this and I don't think the problem is insuperable given goodwill on both
sides.

>and accepting that the holders of all the ancient
>patriarchates assume the titles_papa_ and
In fact all priests in the Greek tradition hold the title  :)

>_vicarius dei_ would be the very least, I think.
Not one of the Pope's titles. But even 'vicarius Christi' is not IMO
insuperable - indeed to some extent other Patriarchs are, as are bishops.

>I you are saying that you would prefer that to the present state of affairs
>I suppose you are quite in a minority, aren't you?
Not at all - my experience is quite to the contrary.  IME the divisions of
Christendom are are scandal and there is a great desire to heal the ancient
schism.

I remember once being told I'd never hear the Mass celebrated in English
during my lifetime.  How wrong that person was!  And I most sincerely hope
you are wrong about my having to be well nigh immortal in this world to see
the great schism healed.

>(Or do you perhaps have a Neon Henotikon and a plan to become ho Basileus
>ton Basileon hid away in your drawer? ;-)
To which at 2:11 pm -0400 14/4/00, John Cowan replied:
[....]
>Nahh.  Ray told us long ago that he belongs to the populares, not the
>optimates.
Quite right too.  Kings and emperors have worked enough mischief in the
history of Christendom (and elsewhere) -  Enough of them!!!

No - no Neon Henotikon, no King of Kings - just faith, and hope and love,
and a belief in the power of the Holy Spirit.

I never rule out miracles.

Ray.

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A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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