Re: Language superiority, improvement, etc.

> Amen. It may not be easy, it may take many many versions, but here at
> conlang we are all blazing the trail of accelerated language evolution.
> Even the extrema have their purpose and meaning by setting the
> boundaries of the practical and the possible. One thing only is sure,
> we do not know the outcome. I prefer to believe it will be beyond our
> present imaginations.
Gah, what a bunch of romantic mush -- here is a true die-hard believer in
Sapir-Whorf, it seems.  It should be kept firmly in mind that language is o=
nly a=20
means for expression of thought and emotion (the two are definitely not mut=
ually=20
exclusive), and that its true character arises simply a reflection of the=
=20
mindset of the people who speak it.  So unless there evolves some culture w=
hich=20
is "beyond our present imaginations", then their language will not exceed t=
hem,=20
either.  Even the most exquisitely perfected conlang is only a tool -- mayb=
e it=20
is well-built and aesthetic, like a good musical instrument; but the music=
=20
itself will always depend upon the composer.  The goal of language is to ap=
peal=20
to and especially to *stay out of the way* of the speaker as much as possib=
le,=20
much as a good violin would allow a person to translate the sounds in their=
 mind=20
to the world outside in a pure, "accurate" manner.  It is an error to belie=
ve=20
that there ever could be such thing as a perfect language, in an absolute s=
ense,=20
and that "the trail" (note the "the") of language evolution will lead ever=
=20
upwards without limit (much as the ancient Greeks liked to speak of infinit=
e or=20
perfect beauty -- there is a limit to how humanlike any well-carven statue =
can=20
look, or how beautiful a person).  It would be useful to think of the unive=
rse=20
of all possible languages not as a flat plain with one great, cloud-shroude=
d=20
peak in the middle, but a hilly landscape with ridges and valleys and ravin=
es=20
(there are no actually used languages I'd put in a ravine, but plenty I'd a=
ssign=20
to a valley :) and rounded hilltops where the best languages sit, distant f=
rom=20
but perhaps little higher or lower than one another.  To run all over the c=
rest=20
of one of those hills (not that I know of many languages that good yet) try=
ing=20
to find the absolute topmost point of it is silly, as is hoping that when y=
ou=20
find it, it will be higher than the neighboring hilltop ten feet above -- t=
here=20
are boundaries to the evolution of any given combination of linguistic feat=
ures.=20
 As to all this about methods to prove the "superiority" of a certain langu=
age=20
over another, the only interesting criterion to me is that of how contented=
 its=20
speakers are with it; whether they like the look and sound of it as they=20
converse in it with each other, and how well it meets their communicational=
=20
needs.  The "perfect" language is the one that fits its particular group of=
=20
speakers like a glove.  It's a tool to be used, not a piece of abstract art=
 to=20
be hung on the living room wall ;-)

The argument that "all languages are equal because there is no way of provi=
ng=20
one superior to another" is a confused one; if there is no way of comparing=
 the=20
worth of languages, then their "equality" is a meaningless concept.
There *are*, however, properties of languages which *can* be compared quite=
=20
effectively, logic and complexity being two of the easiest to define a mean=
s of=20
measurement for --

(
> As I see it, debating whether language X is better
> or more logical or more complex than language Y makes about as
> much sense as debating whether language X is taller than language
> Y, or darker, or more bashful.
).

That language X is more logical than language Y doesn't neccessarily make i=
t a=20
better language, unless logic is something that speakership X admires in=20
communication, or would find desirable if once they had tried it out.  How =
well=20
do you like the view from your particular patch of the hill?  Would you lik=
e=20
better the view from the hillside of Finnish, or Japanese, or Norwegian or=
=20
Quenya?  Once I've wandered about a bit, admired the panorama from each, an=
d=20
maybe even explored some uncharted country of my own, no amount of intellec=
ual=20
grumbling about the pros and cons of this area or that will hinder me from=
=20
picking my favorite spot and staying there; in fact I find that such grumbl=
ing=20
does little more than to disturb the intuitive sense of a language's value=
=20
gained from actual experiences with it.


        _/_/      _/_/  _/_/_/_/   Joshua Shinavier            =20
         _/        _/  _/         Loorenstrasse 74, Zimmer B321=20
        _/        _/  _/_/_/_/   CH-8053 Z=FCrich              =20
 _/    _/  _/    _/        _/   Switzerland                 =20
_/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/=20
http://members.tripod.com/~Paradox5/Danoven/danoven.html