Re: When is plural applied?

>> How do other languages handle the pluralness of
>> nouns that represent a
>> plural idea (inherently mass).
A mass concept is not a plural because it is uncountable.


>Clearly there is much confusion in natlangs on that
>point. The problem is that plural and singular just
>aren't enough in some cases.
Yes. To be more concrete, the problem is that strictly
the concept of number is not applicable to concepts of
mass, only to concepts of discrete entities. Concepts
of mass are uncountable and as such they do not admit
counting; that's why classifiers that divide mass nouns
into discrete units are required to be able to count
with them.


>- singular (one animal is running)
>- dual (both hands are full)
>- plural (animals are running)
>- collective (a group of animals is running)
>- singulative (a single blade of grass)
>- paucal (few animals are runing)
>- null number (no animal is running)
>- indefinite (like in Basque, "one or several")
>- and maybe some more.
You forgot "mass". A collective noun (like "furniture")
is a linguistic device that allows the speaker to take
what per se is a number of discrete, countable entities
(tables, beds, cupboards...) and view them together as
a mass. A singulative noun is the opposite conceptual
process, by which what per se is a mass, uncountable
entity (like "water") is divided into discrete,
countable units ("drops"). The concept of "group"
(unit of several entities), performs both conceptual
processes resulting in a singulative of a collective
(plural --> mass --> unit).

Note, however, that things like "singulative" refer
to conceptualizations of countability and thus do not
properly belong in the same category as number concepts
like "singular" and "plural", which can be applied to
singulatives: a drop, drops, two drops.


>I also suggested thinking about the notion of couple
>(as the two components of a system, like Yin and Yang,
>day and night, male and female), vs the notion of pair
>(eyes, feet...), but I was convinced that I was wrong
>(so I shut up, but I keep thinking my own way :-)
I agree with what you say, providing that "couple"
and "pair" correspond to Spanish "pareja" and "par"
respectively (which I'm not completely sure). But the
distinction is usually blurred in actual usage. The
parameter of homegeneity vs. complementariness between
two elements that this distinction introduces is related
to the parameter of homogeneity vs. heterogeneity within
a plural, which could be used to distinguish between
an unmarked or homogeneous plural from a heterogeneous
plural ("various").

Other distinctions in number may be between several
kinds of plural: antisingular (> 1), antidual (> 2),
antipaucal (> ~10). One may also have trial, even quadral
and conceivably quintal; usually instead of paucal.

Summarizing:

- indefinite, aka 'mugagabe' (undefined as for quantification)

COUNTABILITY

Uncountable

- mass (uncountable per se)

- collective (plural --> mass)

Countable

- unit (countable per se)

- singulative (mass --> unit)
- group (collective --> unit)


NUMBER (only applicable to countable)

- nullar (n = 0)
- singular (n = 1)

Plural

- dual (n = 2)
- trial (n = 3)
- quadral (n = 4)
- quintal (n = 5)

- paucal (~10 > n > 2)
- antisingular (n > 1)
- antidual (n > 2)
- antipaucal (n > ~10)

- complemental (n = 2, complementary)
- heterogeneal (n > 1, heterogeneous)

Cheers,
Javier

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