Re: NATLANG: Latin prefixes with er/ra

On Sunday, September 19, 2004, at 08:56 , Philippe Caquant wrote:

> My Latin dictionary gives both 'super' and 'supra',
> both as adverbs and prepositions, with very closely
> the same meaning.
Sort of - but there's rather more to it than that - see below.

> 'Super' (prep.) is said to be used
> with Acc or Abl,
Why 'said to be'? It actually was one of the few Latin prepositions that
was used with both cases, but with difference of meaning.

> while 'supra' (prep) with Acc only.
True - 'supra' in fact was originally an adverb but like many adverbs came
to be used as a preposition also. Always these 'adverbs used as
prepositions' govern he accusative, which was the 'default' case for
prepositiions.

[snip]
> I guess using a supra- prefix just makes you look very
> erudite, while super- is common.
Rather cynical IMO - not is it correct.

'supra-' is used only with meaning "above" and usually in a quite literal
sense, e.g. supracillary "above the eyebrow", supracostal "above/on a rib"
, spratemporal "above the temples"; but the meaning can be metophorically
above, e.g. supranational "overriding national sovereignty',
suprasegmental "continuing above/through two or more speech sounds".

'super-' is more common because it is used in a wider meaning of "in
excess", "beyond [what is expected]", "in addition" or simply "very".

> On the other hand,
> ulter- and infer- are not prefixes in French, while
> ultra- and infra- are.
The same is so in English. One could, I suppose, analyze 'ulterior' as
'ulter+ior', but that would be a bound root morpheme + suffix. But such
analysis poses problems with "superior". One can hardly have prefix +
suffix and not root or base morpheme! Such analysis is, I believe, due to
diachronic considerations and is unwarranted in a synchronic analysis of
English. IMO 'ulterior' is best regarded as monomorphemic.

> Inter- and intra- are both used
> as prefixes (international, but intraveineuse).
They are in English also, with different meaning, cf. intranet (a
communication system providing similar services to the Internet used
solely _within_ a particular company or organization) ~ Internet (<---
inter[connected] net[works], i.e. a set of networks connected _between_
themselves).

That is the difference in meaning. 'intra-' means "within", "inside of",
so 'intravenous' "within a vein' "introduced with the veins" (*intervenous
would simply mean 'among the veins'), 'intracardiac "within the heart" etc

'inter-' means "among", "between" as in international, interconnect,
interdental (*intradental would be "inside a tooth") etc.
>
> --- Paul Bennett <paul-bennett@...> wrote:
>
>> There are a few that I can think of (knowing no
>> Latin):
>>
>> super-/supra-
>> ulter-/ultra-
>> infer-/infra-
>> inter-/intra-
>>
>> Is there some kind of pattern,
See above.

>> other than that the
>> first of each pair can
>> prefix "-ior" in English?
But what meaning is then given to the bound and (presumably) root morpheme
-ior. Also it seems to me not the best analysis to set up two prefixes,
namely *ulter- and *infer-, that can occur only in front of the morpheme
-ior. IMO it is better in English to treat 'ulterior' and 'inferior' as
single morphemes.

>> Or, indeed, is that itself
>> a pattern that I'm
>> too dense to work out?
I think the problem is that you are trying to create a pattern that does
not exist in english.
[snip]

>> Whatever the pattern is, I suspect that knowing it
>> would shed light for me
>> onto some greater issue with Latin, or possibly PIE.
As I said, I don't think there is any pattern in English, except that the
(genuine) prefixes relate to the meanings of their Latin originals. As to
the Latin:

(a) SVPER, SVPRA

super
i. [adverb] above, "on top", "in addition", "moreover" etc. (Classical,
but rare).
ii. [prep. with the accusative] over, above, on top of; during, at [time];
besides, in addition to.
iii. [prep. with the ablative] over, on top of (rare, mainly poetic);
about, concerning, with respect to (frequent in pre-Classical and in
post-Augustine Latin; rare in the 'Golden' Classical period when "de" was
preferred with this meaning).

supra:
i. [adverb] on the upper side, above [location]; before, formerly [time];
beyond, over, more [numbers or measures].
ii. [prep. with accusative] over, above, on top of; above, beyond, more
than [numbers, e.g. supra tres = more than three)

Just to confuse matters, manuscripts of te same passage differ between
'super' and 'supra'   :)

superus (the masculine singular aso occasionally appears as 'super')
[adjective] that which is above (literally or metaphorically; the plural
_superi_ often means 'the gods').
 From this adjective are derived}
i. [regularly formed comparative] superior
ii. [_two_ irregular superlatives (both with similar meanings}]
	supre:mus
	summus (<-- *supimus)

(b) VLTER, VLTRA
ulter
[adjective] that which is on the other side (rare).
 From this rare adjective are derived the commonly used -
i. [comparative] ulterior
ii. [superlative] ultimus

ultra:
i. [adverb] on the other side, over, besides (either literally or
metaphorically).
ii. [prep. with the accusative] on the farther side of, beyond [location];
beyond, past [time] (ultra tres horas = past three hours, more than three
hours); beyond, above, more than [numbers, measures, i.e. = supra:].

(c) INFER, INTRA:
i:nfer
[adjective] - but rare in this form. It is more often -

i:nferus
[adjective] that which is below, underneath (either literally or
metaphorically).
 From the adjective are derived
i. [comparative] i:nferior
ii. [two superlatives with similar meaning]
	i:nfimus
	i:mus

i:nfra:
i. [adverb] on the under side, below, beneath [location]; below, beneath
[value, esteem]; later [time] (Classical, but rare in this use)
ii. [prep. with accusative] below, under [location]; below, beneath [in
rank, esteem]; less than [number] (rare); later [time] (rare)

(d) INTER, INTRA
inter
i. [adverb] in the midst, in between (rare & poetic)
ii. [prep. with accusative] among, between [location]; among, between
[relation between people whether of friendship, rivalry or enmity];
between, within, during [time].

intra:
i. [adverb] on the inside of, within, inwardly
ii. [prep. with accusative] within, inside of; into [the inside of], into
[the midst of]; within, in the course of [time, e.g. intra tres dies
'within 3 days', 'in the course of 3 days']; less than, within the limis
of.

No adjective *inter or *interus (that which is between) is found in
writing; but that such an adjective must have occurred is attested by the
derived form _intra:_ (see below) and by the derived:
i. [comparative] interior
ii. [superlative] intimus

NOTE:
i. the forms ending in -a: were derived from contracted forms of the
ablative feminine singular of the adjective; for example:
supra: <-- supera: [parte] on the above side
Hence these forms were first used adverbially and then came to be used as
prepositions with the accusative case.
(The only prep. above which is directly derived from PIE is _super_)

ii. The comparative and superlative adverb forms were derived _regularly_
from the corresponding comparative & superlative adjectives, i.e.
- comparative adverb has final -us instead of final -or;
- superlative adverb has final -e: instead of final -us.

There were, as Paul says, some other similar words. But I'm feeling tired
& will content myself with the four sets he listed   :)

I hope all this helps.

Ray
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ray.brown@freeuk.com
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"They are evidently confusing science with technology."
UMBERTO ECO				September, 2004

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