Voiced aspirated plosives (was: phonetic)
|From:||Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>|
|Date:||Wednesday, January 5, 2005, 18:48|
On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 09:17 , Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> Ray Brown wrote:
>>>> And there voiced equivalent? can a voiced plosive be
>> Yes - they are common in the Indic languages.
> They are strictly speaking breathy-voiced,
> a peculiar kind of phonation in the larynx.
> Aspiration is strictly delayed voice onset, and
> that is of course not possible between a voiced
> stop and a following (voiced) vowel.
Indeed not - I had assumed in the Sanskrit, Hindi/Urdu _bh_, _dh_ etc. the
_h_ was voiced, i.e. [h\] (IPA [ɦ]) - after all, [h\] is not exactly an
But your description of "breathy-voiced, a peculiar kind of phonation in
the larynx" sounds like the 'creaky-voiced' or laryngealized sounds I
referred to later in my reply:
>>>> When a phonetic symbol has a ~ under it, it makes
>>>> that it is "creaky voiced"
>>>> but what does it means?
>>> No idea how to explain this... you say it as if you
>>> have laryngitis, I guess. Like you've something caught
>>> in your throat.
>> In fact these sounds are often described as 'laryngealized'. The sounds
>> are produced by a slow vibration of only one end of the vocal chords.
>> Hausa distinguishes between creaky (laryngealized) plosives and
So are the voiced aspirated plosives of the Indic languages in fact the
same as the laryngealized plosives of Hausa?
So how is the Urdu/Hindi _bhai_ (brother) pronounced? Is it [b_h\ai] or
[b_kai] or [b_kh\ai] or what? Are there perhaps variations in dialect and
in different Indic languages?
It always struck me as rather odd that PIE was credited with a series of
voiceless plosives, voiced unaspirated and voiced aspirated plosives, but
no voiceless aspirated plosives. I know it makes sense from a backward
reconstruction from the 'daughter' languages, but it did seem an odd
system for a language to have. I know PIE linguistics have moved on since
I was last seriously looked at them. What is the present state of play, so
to speak, regarding the PIE 'voiced aspirated' plosives?
Anything is possible in the fabulous Celtic twilight,
which is not so much a twilight of the gods
as of the reason." [JRRT, "English and Welsh" ]