Re: Tense formations

Daniel skrev:

> I can only speak for Swedish. The supine is used with "have"
> and the past participle is used with "be". Thus:
>
> Jag har älskat. I have loved. Supine.
> Jag var älskad. I was loved. Past participle.
>
> The only function of the supine is to form the perfect and
> the pluperfect tenses.
Aha... now I see a little more clearly. So to apply this to the Jameld
example, the forms I was uncertain of *were* past participles, and the
perfect past had nothing to do with it. Excellent.

BPJ skrev:

> The distinction exists only in Swedish, and what's more it was or4iginally
> a purely orthographical device.
Somehow I felt that was coming :) There are a lot of them in English too...

> They snatched the term _supinum_ from Latin grammar, but AFAIK the latine
> supine is actually a qute different usage.  Maybe Ray can describe that.
Please do. Crystal is strangely silent on the matter, and my personal
library is too stuffed with bilingual dictionaries to actually contain
anything helpful on the subject.

Hang on, I have another idea... [consults SOED] Right, the Latin supine is a
form of verbal *noun*, and therefore the term in that sense is not
applicable to the Jameld question I raised (although it appears to be
applied differently when describing Swedish).

So, with thanks to you all for your comments, I'll try again:

(strong verb)             (weak verb)
to give  yiben            to love  liuben      (infinitive)
I give   me yib           I love   me liub     (present)
I gave   me yeb           I loved  me liubta   (imperfect)
to have given yibaven     to have loved  liubaven   (perfect infinitive)
I have given  me yibave   I have loved   me liubave  (perfect)
I had given   me yibaa    I had loved    me liubaa   (pluperfect)

I have given it       me yibave iet         (perfect)
It was given by me    et wä yeban ük ime    (yeban: past participle)

I have loved her      me liubave ies        (perfect)
She was loved by me   es wä liubi ük ime    (liubi: past participle)

Does that make sense now?

James

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