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Re: Phoneme winnowing continues

From:Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>
Date:Tuesday, June 3, 2003, 14:52
En réponse à Mark J. Reed :


>There's also a diacritic that turns e.g. fa -> pa, but IIRC it's not a >general fricative->stop converter (e.g. you can't use it to turn su into >tu).
Indeed.
>In Hiragana that's true. Katakana usually uses a generic "make the >last vowel long" marker. But aren't long vowels really considered >to be two syllables anyway?
Not two syllables: two morae.
> I mean, "kaa" is really just "ka" >followed by "a", not a separate syllable that would add to the >inventory.
Not exactly. "kaa" *is* a single syllable in Japanese (in normal connected speech it sounds like [ka:], not [ka.a]). However, for most purposes (i.e. pitch-accent, singing, etc...), Japanese is mora-based rather than syllable-based.
>But again, the nasal is phonemically - and sometimes phonetically >- a separate syllable.
No, a separate mora, which makes it sound like a separate syllable in slow speech and singing.
> For instance, in the first stanza of the >theme song to "Uchyuu Senkan Yamato", the name of the ship is sung >with each syllable on its own beat,
Mora. Japanese rhythm is mora-based.
> including the 'N's: u-chyu-u >se-n-ka-n ya-ma-to [utSjuusEn=kAn=jamato]. The final N in >"senkan" is held for a good bit, too.
Indeed. In songs, final Ns often nearly syllabic to me ;))) . Still, try not to confuse syllables and morae. Japanese, being mora-based rather than syllable-based, provokes a great deal of confusion. Christophe Grandsire. http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr You need a straight mind to invent a twisted conlang.

Replies

Jake X <starvingpoet@...>
Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>
Nik Taylor <yonjuuni@...>