Re: OT: Duchamp (fi: Musical languistics)

In a message dated 2003:06:06 02:43:27 PM, ijzeren_jan@YAHOO.CO.UK replies to
my posting:

>Duchamp did his urinoir thing, he explicitly stated that it was not art
>what he was doing; instead, he meant to relativise art.
    Yes, "anti-art." I think the best found object "art" is anti-art,
creative material appropriation that questions concepts of "Art", "Civilisation,"
"Culture", Masterpiece vs. Trash, perception, etc..

>But what happens next? Trainloads of younger artists started doing the
>same kind of thing, claiming that it was high art
    LMAO "high art"...the very thing anti-art seeks to upturn on its pointy
lil ivory-tower head!

>and thus hiding their own artistic impotence behind a cover the Duchamp
>(unwillingly?) had provided them.
>And what is worse: these people became the new cultural establishment,
>gaining positions that gave them the authority to decide which art is good
and
>which is not.
    Amazing how so many of yesterday's liberals become today's conservatives.
They get too "comfortable" and "complacent" then - if anything threatens
their identity and security - they get downright reactionary.
    One of my favourite t-shirt slogans: "If you're not OUTRAGED... You're
obviously not payin' attention!"

>>     In wry, subversive way, calling found objects "art" is way of
>> _otstraneniye_ - a Russian word and Formalist term - roughly meaning
>> "to make the familiar strange."
>
>Yes. That's the same as German "Verfremdung" (Dutch "vervreemding"). See
>B. Brecht's "Verfremdungseffekt".

In a message dated 2003:06:06 02:47:05 PM, Sally Caves writes:

>"Defamiliarization" in critical parlance in English.  "To defamiliarize,"
>etc.
    Yes, _Verfremdungseffekt_ is one of my favourite German words :)
The English translation loses a bit in reducing it to merely "alienation
effect."
I believe I have mentioned _Verfremdungseffekt_ as well as _otstraneniye_
before (in numerous posts on my motivations for conlanging).

    ::adds _vervreemding_ to Dutch note-file::  ::BiG GRiN::


In a message dated 2003:06:06 02:48:15 PM, John Cowan writes:

>Also the "Mooreeffoc effect", after an anecdote, often told by
>G.K. Chesterton, in which Charles Dickens catches sight of this word
>written on a glass door and realizes that England is a fantastic land
>and London a city of legend.  (It is, of course, "Coffee-room" seen
>in reverse.)
    ROTFLMAO. Mooreeffoc effect... morphic effect... positively Joycean.

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