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Re: Mua5huan5 gah bbeh4 si2 (was: Blue grass and skies)

From:DOUGLAS KOLLER <laokou@...>
Date:Thursday, August 10, 2000, 22:32
From: "H. S. Teoh"

> Oh, BTW... exactly which tones correspond with which number?? I'm getting > really confused here, because I pronounce Mua5huan5 with *different* tones > for each syllable... might be because the Hokkien I speak has mutated its > tones through assimilation of various local dialects. (I *do* know that > the type of Hokkien people speak in my hometown is pronounced with > different tones than either Taiwanese or mainland Hokkien. Very giguai :-)
Mom's apple pie Hokkien has seven tones. The order of the tones is set by a poem in Taiwnese which I've forgotten, two lines of four characters. Technically, there is no Tone 6 since it's the same as Tone 2 in the preceding line, so the tones are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8. 1 high level (44) gim1 gold 2 high falling (52) si2 die 3 low falling (21) ki3 go 4 low falling ending in a stop ("clipped" tone) (32) bbeh4 want 5 rising (24) bbou5 not have 7 mid level (33) ho7 rain 8 high clipped (43) dok8 poison Personally, I pronounce 4 the same as 7 (that is [33]) and 8 the same as 1 ([44]) and no one has ever pointed and guffawed Then it's tone-sandhi-from-hell time: 1 goes to 7 gim1hi5 goldfish read gim7hi5 2 goes to 1 si2zui2 stagnant water read si1zui2 3 goes to 2 yi3su3 meaning read yi2su3 (ki3, go, is a bad example since it colloquially goes to 1: ki1si2 drop dead) 4 goes to 2 if it ends in a glottal stop (which is dropped) or 8 if it ends in p, t, or k keh4lang5 guest read ke2lang5 hiat4guaN7 blood and sweat read hiat8guaN7 5 goes to 7 mua5huan5 bothersome read mua7huan5 7 goes to 3 ho7suaN3 umbrella read ho3suaN3 8 goes to 3 if it ends in a glottal stop (which is dropped) or 4 if it ends in p, t, or k ouh8dai5ggi2 study Taiwanese read ou3dai7gi2 dok8pin2 drugs read dok4pin2 I think in some dialects (Tainan?), 5 goes to 3. Don't know if there are other permutations out there. My Taiwan dictionary marks the sandhi, so goldfish is marked gim7hi5. My mainland one does not: gim1hi5. Myself, I prefer the latter. Sandhi rules should be internalized and automatic. In Mandarin, no one writes stagnant water si2shui3; it's si3shui3, and everyone knows to kick in the sandhi. Too, I think it might be difficult at times to back-derive to the original tone in Hokkien. Yi2, "already", is often identified by speakers as a Tone 1 word because it almost never occurs in isolation and with sandhi it's read yi1. Not cataclysmic, I'll grant you, but why even make it an issue? Kou