Re: Mua5huan5 gah bbeh4 si2 (was: Blue grass and skies)

From: "H. S. Teoh"

> Oh, BTW... exactly which tones correspond with which number?? I'm getting
> really confused here, because I pronounce Mua5huan5 with *different* tones
> for each syllable... might be because the Hokkien I speak has mutated its
> tones through assimilation of various local dialects. (I *do* know that
> the type of Hokkien people speak in my hometown is pronounced with
> different tones than either Taiwanese or mainland Hokkien. Very giguai :-)
Mom's apple pie Hokkien has seven tones. The order of the tones is set by a
poem in Taiwnese which I've forgotten, two lines of four characters.
Technically, there is no Tone 6 since it's the same as Tone 2 in the
preceding line, so the tones are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8.

1  high level (44)   gim1  gold
2  high falling  (52)   si2    die
3  low falling  (21)   ki3    go
4  low falling ending in a stop ("clipped" tone) (32) bbeh4  want
5  rising  (24)  bbou5  not have
7  mid level (33)  ho7  rain
8  high clipped  (43)  dok8  poison

Personally, I pronounce 4 the same as 7 (that is [33]) and 8 the same as 1
([44]) and no one has ever pointed and guffawed

Then it's tone-sandhi-from-hell time:

1 goes to 7   gim1hi5  goldfish   read  gim7hi5
2 goes to 1   si2zui2   stagnant water  read  si1zui2
3 goes to 2   yi3su3   meaning   read  yi2su3  (ki3, go, is a bad example
since it colloquially goes to 1:  ki1si2  drop dead)
4 goes to 2 if it ends in a glottal stop (which is dropped) or 8 if it ends
in p, t, or k
keh4lang5   guest   read  ke2lang5
hiat4guaN7 blood and sweat  read  hiat8guaN7
5 goes to 7  mua5huan5  bothersome  read mua7huan5
7 goes to 3  ho7suaN3  umbrella  read  ho3suaN3
8 goes to 3 if it ends in a glottal stop (which is dropped) or 4 if it ends
in p, t, or k
ouh8dai5ggi2  study Taiwanese  read  ou3dai7gi2
dok8pin2  drugs  read dok4pin2

I think in some dialects (Tainan?), 5 goes to 3. Don't know if there are
other permutations out there.

My Taiwan dictionary marks the sandhi, so goldfish is marked gim7hi5. My
mainland one does not: gim1hi5. Myself, I prefer the latter. Sandhi rules
should be internalized and automatic. In Mandarin, no one writes stagnant
water si2shui3; it's si3shui3, and everyone knows to kick in the sandhi.
Too, I think it might be difficult at times to back-derive to the original
tone in Hokkien. Yi2, "already", is often identified by speakers as a Tone 1
word because it almost never occurs in isolation and with sandhi it's read
yi1. Not cataclysmic, I'll grant you, but why even make it an issue?

Kou