Re: The Story of Guper the Foolish Troll

dunn patrick w wrote:

> But ya know what?  Voiced glotal stops may be impossible, but if so, I
>
> deserve some money, cause I'm making one right now all *over* the damn
>
> place!  Guess bumblebees can't fly, either.
Now, now.  No need to be sarcastic.  Is it possible that when you talk
about voiced glottal stops and glottal approximants you really mean
voiced *pharyngeal* stops and approximants?  Pharyngeals are
produced by constricting the pharynx, between the velum and the
glottis.  As far as I know, voiced pharyngeal stops are found in
certain dialects of Arabic.  Don't know about pharyngeal approximants,
but I can certainly imagine them...


> Glotal approximants?  Nope, I can't really make 'em either.  I can
> *imagine* them, and come pretty close (sort of a really raspy h, mixed
>
> with a half a gargle).
Sounds like a pharyngeal sound to me...


> I thank you for your advice, though; actually had me going for a
> minute,
> considering modifying my pretty little chart.  But then I realized
> something: I didn't spend hours yesterday building up grammar and
> vocabulary and translating a Troll's children story (cubs' story?)
> into
> English in order to make a linguist sniff and declare a voiced glotal
> stop impossible (damn then, what sound *am* I making, if not that?)
No one's attacking your right to have whatever sounds you want
in your language.  Ray was just asking for clarification about the
terminology you used to describe those sounds.  I for one don't
doubt that you're able to make the sound in question, I'm just
dubious that "voiced glottal stop" is the appropriate term for it.
Perhaps it's really a pharyngeal stop.  Perhaps it's a genuine
glottal stop but with some sort of coarticulation which gives it the
phonetic flavour (and phonological status) of a voiced stop.
I don't know.  But calling something a "voiced glottal stop" and
leaving it at that is bound to cause confusion, since such sounds
are alleged not to exist.  That was Ray's only point, I think.

Incidentally, I found the troll story wonderfully amusing.  I
hope you post more of them soon!

Best,
Matt.