Re: OT: Definitely Not YAEPT: English phoneme inventory?

Quoting "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@...>:

> On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 08:09:05PM +0100, Ian Spackman wrote:
> > >Mostly true.  But in some speakers, including myself, there are a few
> > >words that don't follow the pattern.  For example, I use [VI] in
> > >"fire", where it is not followed by a voiceless consonant.  However, I
> > >use [aI] in "wire" and most or all other "-ire" words, so "fire" and
> > >"wire" etc. don't rhyme in my speech.  I've also observed informally
> > >that Canadians who use [VI] in "fire" can hear the difference between
> > >[VI] and [aI] fairly easily, while those who use [aI] in "fire" usually
> > >can't ear the difference.
> >
> > I didn't know that it was phonemic for anyone.  Interesting, but perhaps
> > not surprising.
>
> Hearing a distinction doesn't make it phonemic.  Show me a minimal pair. :)
FWIW, hearing a minimal pair isn't the end-all-be-all of making
a phonemic distinction, either.  What's important is that they
be in contrastive distribution -- they overlap in some phonetic
environments.  Minimal pairs are simply the most obvious kind of
such a contrast.

 =========================================================================
Thomas Wier            "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics    because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago   half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street     Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637