Re: Subjunctive

En réponse à "John C." <Grex37@...>:

>        I am new here and would like to thank the people who helped
> direct me
> to registration at Listserv. But...
Welcome to the list!

> something that expresses hypothesis or a "what if" scenario).
Indeed, that's the job of a subjunctive mood ;)) .

 To be
> honest, I
> am not sure I understand this mood completely. English barely has one
> and its
> hard to think outside the "box" on this one for me... damn those
> English
> mental constraints! I am trying to express a "what if" mood, like (I
> would
> go, The car could have broken down) but am having trouble as to setting
> it
> up. Is it a division of the conditional?
Nope, although languages without a conditional normally use the subjunctive
instead. Actually, the conditional can in many cases be considered a subcase of
the subjunctive. The conditional means basically "if". The subjunctive means
more exactly "maybe".

 What auxilary verbs can you use
> with
> it... I know you can use "can" and "will" i.e. could and would, but
> how
> extensive does it go?
"May/might" and "should" (in some of their uses) are probably the closest
things to a subjunctive English has. The rest you referred to was nearer to a
conditional.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Can you use it
> with a
> past, present, AND future tense (my language has a future tense unlike
> English)?
Portuguese does it, so you can too ;))) .

 Does anyone have a website completely describing their
> language's
> Subjunctive or anything close to it? I would like to model mine off of
> that...I'd really appreciate it.
>
My site is in French, but if you can read it, go to my page about Reman. It's
one of my languages and it has three verbal moods: indicative, subjunctive and
imperative. Since it doesn't have a conditional it makes things a bit different
from you, but the basics are the same.

Still, I can give you a little "subjunctive primer" here ;)) . Basically, you
use the subjunctive when the action is anything *but* certain. The difference
with the conditional is that a conditional is used only when there's a
condition around, while the subjunctive is more an equivalent to "maybe" (the
difference is thin. As I said, languages without a separate conditional use the
subjunctive instead). If you want a really good example at how the subjunctive
works, look at a grammar of Spanish. It has one of the purest use of the
subjunctive there is (French, my mothertongue, is not a good example. In
French, the subjunctive is nearly fossilised and has nearly completely lost its
meaning to become just the mandatory form the verb must have in certain
constructions, without reference to whether the action is certain or not.
Indeed, the construction "bien que" asks for a subjunctive mood while it
means "although", and thus refers to an action that has *certainly* happened!!!
Spanish is more logical here. The equivalent of "although" is "aunque" which
takes the indicative mood. "Aunque" can take the subjunctive mood too, but then
means "even if", and thus does refer to an uncertain event). A subjunctive
future, then, refers simply to an uncertain event which, if it takes place,
will take place in the future. When you want to know if the subjunctive should
be used, you just have to ask yourself the question: would "maybe" or "may" fit
in there? For instance, in the sentence "I want him to come", you are not
certain that he will come. He *may* be coming, but that's up to him to decide
and you cannot do anything to make it certain he will come (well, you may find
a way, but then you don't *want* him to come, you *make* him come, that's
something else ;)) ). And indeed, Spanish (as French, which works logically in
this case) translates "come" here with a subjunctive: "quiero que venga" ("je
veux qu'il vienne").

OK, I hope that helps. Just ask if you still don't understand something :) .

Welcome again!

Christophe.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

Take your life as a movie: do not let anybody else play the leading role.

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