Re: Case

Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 10/07/99 04:55:17  , Nicole a =E9crit :

25 cases ! you must be competing with Nik ;-)

> Recently I decided to
>  change this to just a few:
>  nominative
>  accusative
>  dative
>  genitive
>  prepositional(?)-does anyone have a better name for that-its for use
>  after prepositions, obviously
> =20
"prepositional" is neat to show  which word attaches
to the preposition and which directly attaches to the verb or
another word.

 Where does it go from being "cool" to just plain
>  unworkable?
>=20
personal experience : what makes cases difficult is not cases,
it's only their usual try-&-guess-me notice : gender-based series
and intricated semantic marriage with prepositions and verbs,
mixing of PoS level (noun-to-verb, noun-to-noun).
japanese clitics don't suffer the 2 first side-effects so these "cases"
are like space, time and notional, easy little verbs.
(i don't know why all languages i know often combine time, space
and notion in single cases or prepositions).
same in most conlangs i read. for instance
Nik wrote recently that in W. the topic of an omen
may be referred to as a spacial case (circumlocative)
instead of a notional topical case.

>  I'm just curious, but those of you who do use case in your
>  language, how many do you have?=20
usual fuzzy cases make me nauseous.
contemplating genitive, dative and the like
i loose appetite and have a rush on forearms here,
there and also there (see map below ;-).
so i made up my own system to avoid them.
BTW if there are other conlangers who are not
fond of cases but still have some OK, thanks for telling
how you've managed it.

passive/directive =3D accusative, dative, locative, etc. :
to write DIR-you > you PAS-write
to write DIR-wall > wall PAS-write

final/resultative (or conversely - i don't know)  :
to write RES-letter > letter FIN-write
to say RES-sentence > sentence FIN-say

active/nominative :
to raise NOM-hand > hand ACT-raise

factitive/ergative :
to be raised ERG-him > he ERG-raise

instrumental and agentive cases are ergative and
nominative made un-volitive (=3D dependent).=20
directive case is usually omitted and precised when necessary
with a prepositional verb or gerund (?) :

"i write to you"  =3D i write address you =3D i write you addressed
"i write on the wall" =3D i write located wall =3D i write wall locate

where "you" is subject of "addressed"
and "wall" is subject of "locate".

i drew directive case from english and Joshua's explanations.
these cases are verbal voices uprooted from, but always
attaching to, a verb (whether plain, prepositonal or gerund)
or to the verb inside a noun (like "make-" inside "maker").

there are two series of cases : those above linking an actor to a verb
(verbs include prepositional verbs and gerunds)
and those linking pairs of "nouns" (like "-er" inside "maker"),
namely to make, be, have, give and get.

>  Nicole
mathias