Re: USAGE: [YAEPT] (was Re: "To whom")

On 28 Jan 2005, at 3.46 pm, Rob Haden wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 21:58:44 +1100, Tristan McLeay
> <conlang@...> wrote:
>
>> I don't know that the glottal stop is phonemic (and I've heard
>> evidence
>> that the phoneme for US [4] is actually /t/, so 'meddle' and 'mettle'
>> are both homophones as (what I suppose is) /mEtl=/, contrary to
>> intuition).
>
> I seem to pronounce both as /'mEdl=/.  Sometimes, at least, I think
> the /d/
> is retroflex.  At least "IMD", [4] is not really an allophone of /d/
> & /t/.  But there's only a subtle distinction there, I think.
>
> Someone else brought up "mitten" vs. "midden".  I pronounce them as
> ['mI?
> n=] and ['mIdn=], respectively.  Who here also pronounces "mountain" as
> ['maU?n=]? :b
Colloquially I say [m&~@~nt@n] or [m&~V~nt@n] or something. If I'm
being careful I'm informed it's [m&~O~nt@n], though I used to would've
called it [m&~u\~nt@n]. In any case, the first element's significantly
more obvious. The first [n] is weaker though, so it might approach
[m&~:d@n] in sloppy speech, which is sorta like you [maU?n=] :)

The [t] is I think weakly voiced---or maybe I do use a glottal stop
except when I'm paying attention. I'm uncertain now. Stop making me
think about it!

> Finally, I read that there's phonetic (but not phonemic) lengthening of
> vowels in closed syllables ending with voiced stops.  After listening
> to
> how I pronounce "bet" vs. "bed", I can say that that's true with some
> English speakers.
It definately happens to me with diphthongs (incl. ee and oo as in feed
and food), so that 'laid' has a longer vowel than 'late'. Some people
will try to mislead you into believing it also happens (IMD) with /&/,
but that lengthening there is much more prominent and closer to being
phonemic (it's noticeable by linguistic naives and happens to some
words but not others); it also doesn't happen according to the same
rules as with the diphthongs. I think it there's a slightly shorter
allophone of the long monophthongs (/2:/ in err, /e:/ in air, /a:/ in
are etc).

Most emphatically it does not happen with the short monophthongs; /bed/
and /bet/ have a vowel of the same length.

>   The former is [bEt_h] or [bE?] ~ [bE?_h] and the latter
> [bE:d], for me.  (Is there such a thing as an aspirated glottal stop?)
I see no reason why there couldn't be one, but some people might call
it a glottal affricative :)

--
Tristan.