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Re: THEORY: The fourth person

From:Racsko Tamas <tracsko@...>
Date:Saturday, May 1, 2004, 15:18
On 01 May 2004 <takatunu <takatunu@...>> wrote:

> <<<< The "te"- form is similar to the European non-finite verbal forms: > it must be placed in a slot of another verb. Therefore it has no own > subject. <<<< > > I don't think so. "utatte" has "kare" as subject.
Just like as "singing" has "he" in English sentence "He dances while singing." But in a more correct analysis "singing" is a complement of the main verb and the main verb has subject. Of course there are difference in every language when we use subordination (as in case of -te) and coordination (as in case of to). Can be a finite verb form that doesn't express basic cathegories like tense and politness, and it inherits these from another inflected verb in the sentence? E.g. Kyouto he _kite_ bukkyou wo benkyou *shimashita*. 'X _came_ into Kyoto and *studied* Buddhism.' Only the finite verb *shimashita* is inflected by tense and politness while _kite_ isn't. It's a typical feature of non-finite verbal forms.
> Not necessarily. It may show simultaneity (as in utainagara) as well as > several stages (as in utatte kara) or else (as in utattari shite.) There > are several possibilities.
You wrote about "In Japanese the linking tag between two predicates whose subjects are ...". I reflected only to this special topic, to this special contast.
> You lost me here: I fail to see what's different from what I wrote > previously.
The subject of your posting was "THEORY: The fourth person". Probably this misled me, therefore I was simply arguing against that your examples would be connected with obviativity.
> Anyway, I have the feeling that Japanese threads are like the English > ones: Nobody will change his habits for so much.
I don't want to debate with you for the sake of the debate itself. I was in the belive that you were talking about a "4th person" construction in Japanese.