Re: THEORY: The fourth person

Hi!

Ray Brown <ray.brown@...> writes:
>...
> In fact, I find the penguins of the antarctic more interesting than the
> bears of the arctic.
Why?  They are probably not large and don't pose a big threat to
people visiting them.  So why are they interesting. :-)  Can they
be eaten?

>...
> > all four persons and in number.
>
> Right - I thought there was more to it than simply having different
> possessive suffixes. As we've seen, many languages can and do make similar
> distinctions. But the verb suffixes are distinctive. It would be nice to
> have examples.
Ok, I'll cite a paragraph from my grammar book:

1)  Karli       anigami          orluvoq.
    Karli-0     ani=Gami         urlu=Vuq
    Karl=ABS/s  go.out=PSUB/3Rs  fall.down=IND/3s
    When Karl went out, he (=Karl) fell down.

2)  Kaalip      takugamiuk       illalerpoq.
    Kaali=p     taku=Gamiuk      illa-liq=Vuq
    Karl=ERG/s  see=PSUB/3Rs/3s  laugh-begin=IND/3s
    When Karl saw him/her, he(Karl) started to laugh.

3)  Piitap       takummani        Kaali       qissaserpoq
    Piita=p      taku=(m)mani     Kaali-0     qissasiq=Vuq
    Peter=ERG/s  see=PSUB/3s/3Rs  Karl-ABS/s  cry.begin=IND/3s
    When Peter saw him(Karl), Karl started to cry.

The 3R argument in the subordinate clause is co-referencial with the 3
argument in the matrix clause.

Glossary:
    PSUB= past subordinative mood
    ABS=  absolutive
    IND=  indicative
    s=    singular
    3=    3rd person non-reflexive
    3R=   3rd person reflexive

    IND does not have a 3R person, PSUB has both 3 and 3R endings.

    The bipersonal endings are given in the order ergative
    argument/absolutive argument.

    (Depending on whether an ending attaches with "-" or with "=", the
    fusion rules are different.)

I prefer to put - between the mood and the personal endings, so I'd
write =Vu-q instead of =Vuq.  But due to some irregular fusions going
on and due to different mood endings for different personal endings
(e.g.  PSUB='(m)ma with 3 absolutive, but 'Ga' elsewise), Sadock
writes mood + person as one unit.

Also, I'm sure 'qisaasiq' 'start to cry' is a fusion from
'qisa<something>' with the inchoative ending 'liq' just as with
'illa-liq' 'start to laugh'.

> It seems to me that making a _grammatical_ 4th person distinction is only
> valid if the behavior of the verb warrants it - not if the language
> happens to provide you with more 3rd person and/or demonstrative pronouns
> than the meagre selection we have in English.
The four possesive endings I've given you in the polar bear examples
show the same 4-way person distinction of verbs in Greenlandic.  It
might even be that there are more demonstratives as separate words.
That's one reason I did not notice I was giving noun endings instead
of verb endings -- it's very similar conceptually.

**Henrik