Re: tlhn'ks't, ngghlyam'ft, and other scary words

Daniel wrote:
>Andreas Johansson wrote:
>
> > I usually claim that my 'lect has 18 vowel phonemes. That'd include nine
> > long ones, eight short ones and one diphthong /au/, so ten if length
>doesn't
> > count (I don't really see why it shouldn't).
>
>Because there aren't really any minimal pairs between
>short and long vowels,
I assume interjections don't count? If they do, the verb _ha_ [hA:] "have"
an the interjection _ha_ [ha] "hah" is a definite minimal pair.

>because if you have a long vowel
>you have a short consonant following it and vice versa.
>So _vit_ and _vitt_ imho aren't minimal pairs even though
>there is both a quantity and quality difference. You can't
>have [vIt] or [vi:t:] if you get my drift. It's the same
>phoneme. But that's just my interpretation.
It'd make alot of sense if I could convince myself that consonant length is
phonemic.

> > Swedish isn't normally analyzed as having any phonemic diphthongs, and
> > considering the various Vj sequences as biphonemic don't really cause
>any
> > trouble with my 'lect, unless you're unhappy with syllabifications
>-VC.V-
> > (eg girl's name Maja ['maj.a]).
>
>I'd analyze that as [maj.ja] with a geminate /j/, which would
>strongly suggest it's a consonant, right?
I doesn't sound geminate to me ... but I'm not having a spectrograph at hand
to make checks.

>It'd be interesting to see a spectrogram of _maj_ and see how
>long that last /j/ is as compared to, say, _han_.
I can only agree.

> > But I can't see what to do with [aU] in
> > words like _paus_ "pause", _rauk_ "a kind odd-looking crags found on
> > Gotland's shores". Analyzing as /a:v/ doesn't work since _paus_ then
>rhyme
> > with _stavs_ "staff's", which it certainly does not. [av] is rare, but
> > occurs and I can't bring myself to think it's an allophone of [aU], even
>if
> > I can't seem to find any minimal pairs. Is there any accepted way to do
>away
> > with it? Aside from the assertion of an old textbook I saw that my
> > pronunciation does not occur?
>
>Yes, I've seen that too. _Kaos_ is supposed to be /kA:.Os/ and
>I guess by analogy _paus_ is supposed to be /pa:.8s/ or something,
>which sounds just ridiculous. Swedish definitely has a diphthong /aU/
>imho.
Actual, my pronounciation of _kaos_ osciliates between
[kaUs]~[kA:.Us]~[kA:.Os], while _kaotisk_ is unfailingly [ka.u:.tIsk]. I
think [kaUs] is what I grew up with, while the bisyllabic versions are from
TV science programmes and maths teachers.

But _paus_ etc, as said definitely have a diphthong.

                                               Andreas

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