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Re: CHAT: Contractions in colloquial German (was: Re: articles)

From:J. 'Mach' Wust <j_mach_wust@...>
Date:Wednesday, February 2, 2005, 0:02
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:22:55 +0100, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> wrote:

>Did you misunderstand me? They *do* say [sSvImn=] in Aachen; I said they do >*not* necessarily refrain from it when it creats abstruse initial clusters.
My bad, I read what I wanted to read and not what you had written...
>Reportedly, in Zürcher dialect they have a "strong" and a "weak" [d_0] for >_der_ and _die_. Are you familiar with this phenomenon? I suppose you would >want to say it's [t:] and [t]?
According to the measurements I've read I'd say that the fortis/lenis opposition of Swiss German stops is better described in terms of long stops vs. short stops. I don't know how this is possibly related to the definite articles, since in the Züri dialect they are /t@/ for masculinum and /t:/ for femininum (the latter's point of articulation often coarticulatorily adapted to a following consonant).
>(That's reportedly as in a linguistically naive friend of mine who has a >keen ear for dialectal features and speaks fluent Swiss German told me it >over a couple of beers. I couldn't hear the supposed difference when he >reproduced it.)
Measurements have shown that in the first sound after a pause, there's no audible difference between long and short consonants of Swiss German. The difference of initial long and short consonants is only perceived after words that end with voiced sounds (vowels or /l, r, m, n, N/). kry@s: j. 'mach' wust