Re: EPT:representing back unrounded vowels in X-Sampa

Joe wrote:

> Andreas Johansson wrote:
>
>> Quoting Joe <joe@...>:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Andreas Johansson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Quoting Joe <joe@...>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Tristan McLeay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2004, Joe wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But it's not [6].  I say this after years of experience living
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>> RP-speakers.  It's more closed than that.  However, when I round
>>>>>>> it, I
>>>>>>> don't get [o], so I'm thinking it's probably [3].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So whats in 'bird'? I thought it was [3:] in RP?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> It is.  Length contrast, I think.  The only other vowel that does
>>>>> that
>>>>> is [E] vs [E:](minimal pair - 'cairn'[kE:n] vs 'ken'[kEn]).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 'Cairn' is [kE:n] in modern RP? My school textbooks indicated it as
>>>> [ke@n],
>>>> and I usually say [kE@n] (I also have [e@] for the vowel in 'ear',
>>>> which my
>>>> texbooks indicated as [I@]).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Well, 'tis in my ideolect.  [E@] and [e@] sound old-fashioned, to my
>>> ear.  To me, |air| is [E:], and it's definitely a pure vowel.  In a
>>> similar way, I think 'year' is probably [yI@] as of yet, but it's
>>> definitely heading towards [yI:].
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You mean [jI@] and [jI:], no doubt.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes.  Damn my English-speaking instincts.

I think there are a lot of people who like me have both

monosyllable are schwaed (if not followed by a word beginning with a vowel)

bear [bE@]  hear [hI@]

disyllables are long

bearing [bE:rIN] hearing [hI:rIN]

David Barrow