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Re: LW again -- Noun and verb

From:Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@...>
Date:Friday, August 30, 2002, 15:13
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:10:46 +0200 Christophe Grandsire
<christophe.grandsire@...> writes:
> En réponse à "Thomas R. Wier" <trwier@...>: > > So the question would appear to be: is this Hebrew construction > > which forbids an agent formally marked?
> AFAIK yes, it's formally different from the active voice, and also > different > from the passive which allows the agent to be obliquely marked.
> I'd like to see some > > examples, if possible.
> I don't have my booklet here, but I will check that at home. If I'm > lucky > enough to receive my new modem today (it should arrive today > indeed), I should > be able to give you an example in the weekend. Else, we'll have to > wait until Monday :(((( . > Christophe.
- Okay, i've been trying to figure out what you all are talking about. I think i may have gotten it. Hebrew has 3 passive paradigms (binyanim): (hebrew |binyanim| are named after the past 3rd person male singular form) nif`al (niCCaC) = simple passive pu`al (CuC:aC) = passive of the intensive huf`al (huCCaC) = passive of the causative in addition, there is the _nitpa`eil_ (nitCaC:eC) form, a passivized version of the reflexive paradigm, which only differs from it in the past; and the _pa`ul_ form (CaCu:C), a passive participle based on the simple (pa`al/qal, CaCaC) paradigm that only exists in the present. If you're talking about the difference between |hamikhtav katuv| (in pa`ul) and |hamikhtav nikhtav| (in nif`al) for "the letter is written", i guess it sounds more natural to say |hamikhtav nikhtav `al-yedey hashomeir| "the letter is written by the guard" in |nif`al| form, than to use the |pa`ul| form there. But we'd better check with Dan Sulani's children to make sure :-) . -Stephen (Steg) "I just wanted you to tell me the truth You know I'd do that for you..." ~ "running away" by hoobastank