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Re: poll: the word 'for'

From:Douglas Koller, Latin & French <latinfrench@...>
Date:Thursday, May 9, 2002, 19:24
Garrett wrote:

>So which of the following meanings of the english words 'for' do you have >unique words for in your conlangs, and which of the meanings do you collapse >together?
Great question, Garrett! Most of this is postpositions, but...
>FOR: > >A. usage, purpose >- a tool for hammering, a room for sleep
Will need to give this one some more thought. I initially thought "ö", "in order to", but that doesn't really address it once you move beyond really simple sentences.
>B. in place of >- I'm wearing blankets for clothes
jökfü (+ neg. forms) - instead of, in place of
>C. representing >- I am speaking for him >D. beneficiary >- I'm washing the dishes for her >E. intended recipient >- These are flowers for a girl. >F. in defense of, in favor of >- They are fighting for a cause.
By rights, these could all be dative. There is a postposition, "rhad" (/xRad/?), "for" with the sense of "on behalf of", "for the sake of", which can cover benefactive meanings when context gets dicey or when there might be two datively sensed things in the same sentence ("Say hello to your mother for me.") In your C example, I would most likely go for "rhad", since, sans context, dative would imply speaking TO him. D and E are usually dative, though D might go "rhad" ("I'm buying a present for my mother." if it means E (she gets the gift), dative; if it means "Mom wants to buy a present, but she's bed-ridden and I'm buying it on her behalf." and for some reason the context is unclear, "rhad" whips it into shape.)
>G. the amount of >- bill for $50
Depends. I originally took it to mean a fifty-dollar bill (i.e. the denomination with Grant on it), in which case it would be genitive. But then on the commute in, I went "oooh!" and interpreted it as, like, say, a restaurant bill which came to the amount of $50, in which case it would be instrumental.
>H. in exchange for >- I sold it for $20,000
jo - in exchange for
>I. in proportion to >- two pennies earned for every penny spent
abo - per
>J. time span >- she slept for two hours
srem - for (duration of time)
>K. distance >- we walked for two miles
rho - as far as
>L. because of >- she is famous for her stupidity
vaçka - because of
>M. in spite of >- for all his wealth, he is still unhappy.
kfezhö - in spite of
>N. with respect to the standard ~ >- she is clever for a child
sfen - as
>O. regarding >- for this problem, add one.
ésh - concerning, regarding, about
>P. in favor of >- i'm all for beating him up.
Need to coin.
>Q. intended destination >- he is destined for greatness
Need to coin. Kou