Re: poll: the word 'for'

 >From: Garrett Jones <alkaline@...>

 >So which of the following meanings of the english words 'for' do you have
 >unique words for in your conlangs, and which of the meanings do you collapse
 >together?

        In Vaior, some of these get to be words, some are indicated in
other ways, sometimes by cases, sometimes by syntax.  Some of these
subtleties haven't been addressed yet.

 >FOR:
 >
 >A. usage, purpose
 >- a tool for hammering, a room for sleep

        Normally the noun would have to be modified by a relative
clause of some sort for some of these, though the pseudo-preposition
'callu' "suited to, intended for" could be use in some situations.
So, the notion of suitability is represented by 'callu' and 'cal' but
just purpose will require more work.

 >B. in place of
 >- I'm wearing blankets for clothes

        This is 'perech' which is peculiar in some other ways.  It can
mean "similar to, like" but there is another word for this, "tul".
However, the conjunction 'perech ar' "as though" depend on the later
meaning.

 >C. representing
 >- I am speaking for him
 >D. beneficiary
 >- I'm washing the dishes for her
 >E. intended recipient
 >- These are flowers for a girl.

        CD&E are all indicated by the benefactive case:

        Oro va nante
        or-o va na-nte  speak-PRES 1sg 3sg-BENEFACTIVE

 >F. in defense of, in favor of
 >- They are fighting for a cause.

        This is trickier.  Many verbs in Vaior simply take the
accusative where English would use a verb/preposition combination.
However, it seems useful to have a preposition to pair with 'imhi'
"against."

 >G. the amount of
 >- bill for $50
 >H. in exchange for
 >- I sold it for $20,000
 >I. in proportion to
 >- two pennies earned for every penny spent

        Ooh.  I should work on these.

 >J. time span
 >- she slept for two hours
 >K. distance
 >- we walked for two miles

        Indicated by case: ablative.

 >L. because of
 >- she is famous for her stupidity

        Preposition, 'ol' + genitive.  The normal notion of 'ol' with
location and motion cases is the idea of "out of."

 >M. in spite of
 >- for all his wealth, he is still unhappy.

        Most likely represented with a concession clause "although he
is wealthy..."

 >N. with respect to the standard ~
 >- she is clever for a child

        Oooh.  Another good one.  No way to say this in Vaior yet.

 >O. regarding
 >- for this problem, add one.

        Preposition 'rul' "regarding."

 >P. in favor of
 >- i'm all for beating him up.

        Syntax.  "to be all for" is an idiom, I'd say.  Normally you'd
just state your intent or willingness to do this, with the appropriate
clause with the appropriate finite verb form.

 >Q. intended destination
 >- he is destined for greatness

        Use a verb!  "he is destined to be great."

        So, some of these ideas are separately represented in Vaior,
but others are not.  English likes nouns.  Vaior seems to like verbs
better.

        Summary:

A: 'cul' or 'cullu' for suitability, "purpose," clause for usage
B: 'perech'
C, D, E: benefactive case
F: missing so far, likely to appear soon to pair with 'imhi' "against"
G, H, I: missing completely, G and H will be one thing, I. something else
J, K: ablative of extent
L: 'ol' + genitive
M: concession clause
N: missing, will probably be an idiom
O: 'rul'
P: syntax, perhaps idiom
Q: not entirely sure; syntax with full clause seems best

        This was a very good question!

--
William Annis  -  System Administrator -  Biomedical Computing Group
"When men are inhuman, take care not to feel towards them as they do
towards other humans."                       Marcus Aurelius  VII.65