Re: poll: the word 'for'

Garrett Jones wrote:


>So which of the following meanings of the english words 'for' do you have
>unique words for in your conlangs, and which of the meanings do you
collapse
>together?

What a useful list!! I wish I'd had it (or had given it sufficient thought)
when I was writing up Kash syntax. Would have saved a lot of mental
wheel-spinning.  Basically there are two usages:  the dative case, or the
preposition _uçoñi_ 'intended for, for the purpose of, on behalf of' (< uçom
'purpose' plus -ni '3/poss'. (takes genitive).  But as Wm Annis also
replied,

>>In Vaior, some of these get to be words, some are indicated in
other ways, sometimes by cases, sometimes by syntax.  Some of these
subtleties haven't been addressed yet.>>

>FOR:
>
>A. usage, purpose
>- a tool for hammering, -- use vara 'in order to' + verb
a room for sleep -- collocation, atel çiru 'room sleep'
>B. in place of
>- I'm wearing blankets for clothes -- not yet.......
>
>C. representing
>- I am speaking for him-- uçoñi. But there can be ambiguity:
maçindi karune uçoñi ereki 'I spoke to the duke FOR Erek', either 'on his
behalf' (to recommend Erek, or to beg the duke not to exile him) or 'in
place of' (i.e. Erek asked me to, he didn't want to for some reason)
>D. beneficiary
>- I'm washing the dishes for her -- uçoñi, if for some reason she was
unable to do so; dative, if it was done as a favor.
Similarly:  (1) amani yatraka minaye puna 'her father bought Mina a house ~a
house for Mina:  Mina in the dative:  implied: daddy put up the money, it
was a gift; Mina probably has title, full ownership.
    (2) amani yatraka puna uçoñi minayi (same translation, but implies the
house is simply for her use; perhaps she's a poor relation; daddy probably
retains ownership
>E. intended recipient
>- These are flowers for a girl. definitely uçoñi!!
>F. in defense of, in favor of
>- They are fighting for a cause.-- not yet; it might be _liri_ 'concerning,
with respect to' in some cases......
>
>G. the amount of
>- bill for $50-- collocation  bill + $50.
>H. in exchange for
>- I sold it for $20,000 probably "I sold it, its-price $20,000.
>I. in proportion to
>- two pennies earned for every penny spent--  possibly _yam_ 'with', not
sure
>
>J. time span
>- she slept for two hours -- collocation
>K. distance
>- we walked for two miles -- collocation
>
>L. because of
>- she is famous for her stupidity-- possibly liri, or ombini 'because
of...'
>M. in spite of
>- for all his wealth, he is still unhappy.-- not yet.....
>
>N. with respect to the standard ~
>- she is clever for a child---hmmm.
>O. regarding
>- for this problem, add one. -- liri, or as in Aidan's 'stitch' sentence,
'in order to..(make ~solve...etc).  Simple topicalization would work too:
"This problem, add one"
>P. in favor of
>- i'm all for beating him up.--hmmm.  Would probably require a clause
"(.....) that we beat him up"
>Q. intended destination
>- he is destined for greatness -- hmmmm. Well, yuçoñi, tombar ~angakaya,
lit. his-destiny/fate[TOPIC], (is) glory ~fame.  In non-metaphoric usage,
e.g. "he is headed for New York" it would be _ri vunuweni NY_ 'in the
direction/toward NY'
>
As a side note, the various uses of Engl. OF also present problems.